Game Thread - Southern Illinois @ RC - Sat 12/13 6pm ESPN+

[carolinaspider]

I was down on Beagle last year because he was beat on the boards by smaller more
physical players and when he had ball in lane, he did not go hard to the rim. Mike is just
a glimpse of how he was the last half of last year, but he does have a better supporting class
of teammates this year. We will need Walz, Beagle, AP and Daughtry to be strong rebounders
and scoring threats as we move into A10 play.

 

[PhillySpider]

We were +22 last night when AP was on the floor. He shouldn’t be shooting 3s, but he made a tremendous impact in this game.

I will concede that he was better yesterday but he reminds me of Deon Taylor who basically started for 3 years while averaging 3 points a game and being ok on defense and maybe average as rebounder. He played because he was always in the right place and doing the right things on offense. Which means he didn't turn it over and always moved from spot to spot in the offense correctly. But he made no plays. Now we have AP who has evolved from being bad to being that guy - - no turnovers or other big mistakes and he gets the offense etc. but makes no plays. Defense is ok at best and rebounding is same. With him getting more minutes yesterday, we got hammered on the boards. Not his fault, but he isn't a huge help rebounding. And don't hand me stats from this year where we are playing the 350th schedule and have had only 1 true road game to boot against these powerhouses.

And Tanner is sort of the same too. Id just like to see us develop guys who can possibly make plays into guys who can make plays without making mistakes. But to do that we have to be willing to let them play through some mistakes and Moon just isn't the guy for that. If you are the star, you can make mistakes and stay in but no on else is offered that luxury and as a result, some guys get no chances and some get a chance but get hooked right away on a mistake. I understand his theory, I just don't agree and would rather see someone else getting these minutes. Its simply wrong in my mind that AP gets more minutes that Daughtry for example. Even if you can somehow argue AP is better right now (which I can't see), the chances of Daughtry being better down the road is very clear and we should be chasing that upside, not running to the safety of a guy who makes no mistakes but makes no plays!

 

[carolinaspider]

After 10 games I think this team will be a better team than expected in the A10. We will
continue our 10-11 player rotation in order to find who has the hot hand and best matchup.
The scary thing here, is how good we are if 6 or 7 players are playing strong vs 3 or 4. This
team looks confident and seems to be having fun. Love the faster pace.

 

[*23*]

I didn't see the game, but saw highlights. Beagle's Stat line and game continue to impress. More comfortable in the offense or not, he looks like he really worked on his game this off season. He seems to have added a little hook and his step throughs are very effective and he seems more explosive.
Looks like the success of a big game did not carry over for Walz. The good thing is we do have the two man rotation at the position. Would love to see some consistent aggressiveness from Walz. 1 assist 3 turnovers from a player who sees himself primarily as a facilitator is not great. I know from that interview he prefers passing on the perimeter and the down low big man play is boring in his words. I think Boyden needs to drill in his head it is exciting .

 

[97spiderfan]

I will concede that he was better yesterday but he reminds me of Deon Taylor who basically started for 3 years while averaging 3 points a game and being ok on defense and maybe average as rebounder. He played because he was always in the right place and doing the right things on offense. Which means he didn't turn it over and always moved from spot to spot in the offense correctly. But he made no plays. Now we have AP who has evolved from being bad to being that guy - - no turnovers or other big mistakes and he gets the offense etc. but makes no plays. Defense is ok at best and rebounding is same. With him getting more minutes yesterday, we got hammered on the boards. Not his fault, but he isn't a huge help rebounding. And don't hand me stats from this year where we are playing the 350th schedule and have had only 1 true road game to boot against these powerhouses.

And Tanner is sort of the same too. Id just like to see us develop guys who can possibly make plays into guys who can make plays without making mistakes. But to do that we have to be willing to let them play through some mistakes and Moon just isn't the guy for that. If you are the star, you can make mistakes and stay in but no on else is offered that luxury and as a result, some guys get no chances and some get a chance but get hooked right away on a mistake. I understand his theory, I just don't agree and would rather see someone else getting these minutes. Its simply wrong in my mind that AP gets more minutes that Daughtry for example. Even if you can somehow argue AP is better right now (which I can't see), the chances of Daughtry being better down the road is very clear and we should be chasing that upside, not running to the safety of a guy who makes no mistakes but makes no plays!

I was down on AP at the start of the season as well. And don't even get me started on Deion Taylor and how in the name of all this is holy he got the minutes he got after his back injury.

But AP is playing some really good defense out there. He is making plays on defense. Yes, he should really never shoot the ball and I cringed when he shot and made his first 3 on Saturday. Figuring that would give him the confidence to be taking more, but he didn't. I think he fully knows his role and that is to be a sticky defender and good rebounder. I don't think he is Deion in the capacity that I see him make some pretty impactful plays on defense every game now.

Now. Colin Tanner, completely agree. Not sure why he continues to start. He can't do much on offense lacks lateral mobility and quickness to be a good defender as well. He is a decent rebounder. But to me, I move AJ Lopez to the starting 3 position, I start Daughtry at the 4. Daughtry needs more minutes, he is the one guy we need more of on the court because he is such a dynamic offense player.

But then again we are 9-1, so perhaps don't change to much right now. More difficult competition is on the horizon though.

 

[Eight Legger]

Haven't watched a lot this year, but it seems like maybe Daughtry isn't ready for bigger minutes physically yet? If that's not the case, then it doesn't make sense why he wouldn't be getting more.

 

[97spiderfan]

I'll add a couple other observations on Saturday from the game.

Starters Minutes:
Tyne: 14
Tanner: 18
Walz: 18

Reserve minutes:
Aiden: 27
AP: 28
Beagle: 22

The start of the second half was brutal for our starting 5, it looked like last year's team with a bunch of passing around the perimeter and inability to initiate our offense. Only when Aiden and Daughtry entered did we go on our big run that turned the game around. This shouldn't be shocking to anyone as Aiden and Daughtry are dynamic offensive players who can create their own shots and offense.

I know I said above, change is tough to justify when you are 9-1, but looking at the offense with our current starting line-up, I think is going to continue to lead to slow starts in the future.

Also Tyne coming in the game at the end for defensive purposes and then get promptly toasted for an and 1 was a terrible look. Mooney said at the beginning of the season how Tyne is our best guard defender. I don't see that. Who picked up the offensive charge and then created a turnover in the closing minutes, it was Aiden.

To me, I just don't know how you can justify not starting Aiden. Yeah, I know he is a freshman and we are 9-1, it would clearly be a demotion for Tyne, but Aiden is just such a dynamic difference maker on both sides of the court.

 

[Long Time UR Fan]

I'll add a couple other observations on Saturday from the game.

Starters Minutes:
Tyne: 14
Tanner: 18
Walz: 18

Reserve minutes:
Aiden: 27
AP: 28
Beagle: 22

The start of the second half was brutal for our starting 5, it looked like last year's team with a bunch of passing around the perimeter and inability to initiate our offense. Only when Aiden and Daughtry entered did we go on our big run that turned the game around. This shouldn't be shocking to anyone as Aiden and Daughtry are dynamic offensive players who can create their own shots and offense.

I know I said above, change is tough to justify when you are 9-1, but looking at the offense with our current starting line-up, I think is going to continue to lead to slow starts in the future.

Also Tyne coming in the game at the end for defensive purposes and then get promptly toasted for an and 1 was a terrible look. Mooney said at the beginning of the season how Tyne is our best guard defender. I don't see that. Who picked up the offensive charge and then created a turnover in the closing minutes, it was Aiden.

To me, I just don't know how you can justify not starting Aiden. Yeah, I know he is a freshman and we are 9-1, it would clearly be a demotion for Tyne, but Aiden is just such a dynamic difference maker on both sides of the court.

If Mooney still thinks Tyne is our best guard defender, he must not be paying attention during the games. AA moves his feet and stays in front of a driving offensive player better than anyone else on the team. His excellent defense resulted in drawing 3 charges vs. SIU and could easily have been 4 if the ref saw one play the way I did. He is also disruptive on defense and gets his hands in there to make some steals. He certainly won't come anywhere near Gilly's steal record, but based on this small sample I feel like he is as good as an overall defender as Gilly.

 

[97spiderfan]

If Mooney still thinks Tyne is our best guard defender, he must not be paying attention during the games. AA moves his feet and stays in front of a driving offensive player better than anyone else on the team. His excellent defense resulted in drawing 3 charges vs. SIU and could easily have been 4 if the ref saw one play the way I did. He is also disruptive on defense and gets his hands in there to make some steals. He certainly won't come anywhere near Gilly's steal record, but based on this small sample I feel like he is as good as an overall defender as Gilly.

Glad we are seeing the same thing. Mooney made the comments regarding Tyne at the beginning of the year before he saw Aiden play in a D-1 game, so their is context there.

But yes, as good as Aiden has been on offense, I see an equally disruptive and pesky player on defense. He has excellent instincts and basketball IQ on defense as well. You just get the feeling that something good is about to happen when he is around the ball.

 

[vt4700]

Haven't watched a lot this year, but it seems like maybe Daughtry isn't ready for bigger minutes physically yet? If that's not the case, then it doesn't make sense why he wouldn't be getting more.

I think AP continuing to play well will keep both his and Daughtry's minutes around 20 most nights. These can fluctuate based on how the game is going and who of the 2 is playing better, but I am fine with the way we are playing them right now.

Daughtry is a really good offensive player, but without guard skills, and maybe not being a great defender, I can see why he might not be a 25-30 minute guy. If we didn't have depth and other scoring options, then, sure, play him 30 mpg, but I like the way we are utilizing him now, and it seems to be working.

 

[Spiderguy]

We’re like 10 games into the season. I’m curious if CM will tweak the starting lineup. Others have alluded to fact that it doesn’t matter who starts, as mins played prob more important and reflective. But several weeks ago I said it’s a reward sort of to have those who have earned starting…then let them start. Things can change once we enter confidence play, but after 10 games my vote is to swap AA, Daughtry, and Beagle for Tyne, Tanner, and Waltz. And quite frankly, it’s more than a reward. These 3 have earned it, and their productivity tells me that as well as the eye test.

 

[Section9_RowD]

We’re like 10 games into the season. I’m curious if CM will tweak the starting lineup. Others have alluded to fact that it doesn’t matter who starts, as mins played prob more important and reflective. But several weeks ago I said it’s a reward sort of to have those who have earned starting…then let them start. Things can change once we enter confidence play, but after 10 games my vote is to swap AA, Daughtry, and Beagle for Tyne, Tanner, and Waltz. And quite frankly, it’s more than a reward. These 3 have earned it, and their productivity tells me that as well as the eye test.

Doubt he does as long as our winning streak continues rightly or wrongly

 

[fan2011]

There may be something in bringing out some offensive firepower from the bench right when the other team is subbing out their starters. Not sure if that is an actual strategy though

 

[vt4700]

There may be something in bringing out some offensive firepower from the bench right when the other team is subbing out their starters. Not sure if that is an actual strategy though

Seems to be working. While starting them sounds like it would make sense, we would lose playmakers and scoring off the bench. I think if we had less depth and wanted our starters getting 30+ mpg, then we might want to change it up, but, unless we get off to some real bad starts, I think we are good right now.

 

[Spiderguy]

There may be something in bringing out some offensive firepower from the bench right when the other team is subbing out their starters. Not sure if that is an actual strategy though

Why not have that offensive firepower start the game to establish momentum from the start of game?

 

[Urmite]

Are we 4th in bench minutes?

 

[sman]

it's working because we're playing weak teams. everything works when you play weak teams.
we'll need our best lineups in-conference. I'd like to figure it out now, not wait until it bites us.

 

[vt4700]

it's working because we're playing weak teams. everything works when you play weak teams.
we'll need our best lineups in-conference. I'd like to figure it out now, not wait until it bites us.

The way we are rotating guys in and out, I doubt any lineup will end up playing more than 10 minutes together anyway. But, I'm not really disagreeing with anyone here. I would not have a problem if we changed our starters, but I can also see why we aren't right now.

 

[97spiderfan]

I agree and it sounds like we have a bunch of team first guys. Also think Aiden is the best player on the team and him not starting just doesn't comport with that.