Do non-Power Conferences even matter?

Spide

Spide

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Was wondering last night about the record for the 26 non-Power Conferences vs teams currently ranked in the AP Top 25. The overall record is 6-189. Twenty four of the conferences, including our mighty A10, have zero wins against ranked teams. To further clarify, Grand Canyon of the Mountain West has one win against ranked teams, while the West Coast Conference includes Portland with a single win and Gonzaga (moving soon to Pac 12) with 4 wins to make up the rest. To me, it is pure folly to think that our Spiders, fellow members of the A10 and other non-Power Conferences really matter in the overall scheme of things in D1 college basketball. Truth is, there are now the Power Conferences (ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Big East, SEC, Pac 12) and the Group of 26, much like in football with the Group of 5. As in football and now in basketball, the non Power Conferences should have their own schedules and championships, thus allowing for greater gratification among their members.
 
It's a concern of mine as a fan of both Richmond and the A-10 in general.

I agree the top of the power conferences are very good--and any mid major team would be hard pressed to win against them. But there is no way that a Power 5 team that can't even go .500 in their own conference should get in over teams like Liberty, as an example.

It's not an even playing field at all, and this alters my enjoyment of the sport even more than transfers NIL. Miami will be a good litmus test if they lose more than once more.

The new term they use is most deserving vs. best--implying that non power 5 schools are more deserving but that doesn't matter you take the best. See what happens if the middling schools in the Power 5 visit A-10, MAC schools. I'm not intrinsically opposed to the NET if they got rid of the quadrant system but using Penn State (who is terrible and lost by like 20 to Pitt) as an example--is a Q2 road win for anyone that wins in State College
 
It’s hard to compete. Let’s just move to D2. Mid majors can never beat a high major. March madness will be all chalk this year.

Did I do that right? Reality is the record stated above is wildly inflated because P5 teams will (mostly) only play low majors and on their home court. If they had home and homes with mid majors, the record would be much more respectable. That’s why in the past the thanksgiving tournaments have been so crucial - a chance for mid majors to play high majors on a neutral court. But even those are becoming less common.

Can we also note that we literally have a top 25 team within our own non-P5 conference?
 
Last edited:
Spider2020 said:
It’s hard to compete. Let’s just move to D2. Mid majors can never beat a high major. March madness will be all chalk this year.

Did I do that right? Reality is the record stated above is wildly inflated because P5 teams will (mostly) only play low majors and on their home court. If they had home and homes with mid majors, the record would be much more respectable. That’s why in the past the thanksgiving tournaments have been so crucial - a chance for mid majors to play high majors on a neutral court. But even those are becoming less common.

Can we also note that we literally have a top 25 team within our own non-P5 conference?
Click to expand...
I consider this separate from the Mooney argument.

The fact a 20-3 Mason team (i know SOS weak), VCU (who beat VT--but VT is everyone's bubble team), or some people say Miami OH can afford only one loss to make the tournament isn't a U of R or Mooney issue.
 
Spider2020 said:
It’s hard to compete. Let’s just move to D2. Mid majors can never beat a high major. March madness will be all chalk this year.

Did I do that right? Reality is the record stated above is wildly inflated because P5 teams will (mostly) only play low majors and on their home court. If they had home and homes with mid majors, the record would be much more respectable. That’s why in the past the thanksgiving tournaments have been so crucial - a chance for mid majors to play high majors on a neutral court. But even those are becoming less common.

Can we also note that we literally have a top 25 team within our own non-P5 conference?
Click to expand...
Exactly, and that top 25 team was garbage in this league for a few years because it had an overrated coach who was just cashing paychecks. Then it hired a real coach, and voila. The concept eludes the powers that be at UR, though.
 
Richmond has been one of the A10s main culprits as to why it's not a better conference year after year. Saint Louis under Ford was the same way, doing less with good resources

My take on the A10 as a conference is that you have to look at the individual members and not at the league/brand as a whole, bc there are disparities that become evident. To be like the MWC currently is with a strong top tier, multiple programs need to commit to being very good year after year. Here are the A10 tiers IMO. Order of listing within tier is random. I'm not commenting on UR since I do that nonstop here in other threads.


1-2. Top of class.
  • Dayton
  • VCU
    • have been steadily top 2 as far as dedication to winning, fan support, brand recognition and respect in college bball circles. I don't think this is disputable.

3-4. Should always be contenders (even if not at present)
  • UR - we cover what needs of the program are here on a daily basis.
  • St. Louis - resources are there but there has been no consistency. They are well funded enough to be there to make a solid upper echelon and contend every year. Ford killed them for years. Can SLU keep their coach and what is next if not? They have good fans, great arena, city location, should be there regularly.
5-6. Slightly below (teams that care enough to contend but have small arenas or other things not at levels of schools above)
  • Davidson - can they ditch mediocre coach nepo and use Curry NIL money wisely - similar boat to UR in that has fan support, but need to maximize what they do. Tiny student population doesn't help/could be recruiting issue. Have had solid success in A10 have to rediscover that.
  • Loyola. I'd hope Loyola's season is an aberration and they can be one of these teams in the top echelon. Small gym, and program still an unknown commodity in terms of facing this kind of adversity after moving up to A10 following recent success, especially given no real rival yet in league for fans to get excited over.

7-8. Question marks
  • Mason. Program is erratic. They rise and fall too much for my liking, but more so I don't trust their commitment and fan support (commuter school) if they don't have the perfect coach. B2B good hires - but can they keep it up?
  • Bonas - can Woj do something in the boonies for the Bonnies? Schmidt may have to go to do so. They have fan base who cares, which is good, but an endowment of only $95m.

9-14. Untrustworthy
  • URI. Would be my most likely to jump up a category (or multiple), but they have only been good when Hurley was there in the last 15 years. Have had fans/students care when they're good, but they're mostly not. Need to ditch Archie
  • GW - I don't understand this program, don't like their gym and don't know that their coach is getting them up to top of A10 regularly. Tell me why I'm wrong.
  • Saint Joe's - always some kind of issue. Never reaching past heights is an issue. Seem to be able to get some good players and never be able to make seasons click.
  • Lasalle - basically broke. Should be in another conference.
  • Fordham - as per the FU fan here last week, don't care about sports. On brand. Should be in Patriot League.
  • Duquesne - once a decade type relevance.
IMO - too many teams. As new commissioner, I'd lose the obvious two to consolidate a bit, then put a demand on program funding from those who are left. Don't assume the ADs are competent and push them at every turn to be great.
 
brooklyn brownstone said:
Richmond has been one of the A10s main culprits as to why it's not a better conference year after year. Saint Louis under Ford was the same way, doing less with good resources

My take on the A10 as a conference is that you have to look at the individual members and not at the league/brand as a whole, bc there are disparities that become evident. To be like the MWC currently is with a strong top tier, multiple programs need to commit to being very good year after year. Here are the A10 tiers IMO. Order of listing within tier is random. I'm not commenting on UR since I do that nonstop here in other threads.


1-2. Top of class.
  • Dayton
  • VCU
    • have been steadily top 2 as far as dedication to winning, fan support, brand recognition and respect in college bball circles. I don't think this is disputable.

3-4. Should always be contenders (even if not at present)
  • UR - we cover what needs of the program are here on a daily basis.
  • St. Louis - resources are there but there has been no consistency. They are well funded enough to be there to make a solid upper echelon and contend every year. Ford killed them for years. Can SLU keep their coach and what is next if not? They have good fans, great arena, city location, should be there regularly.
5-6. Slightly below (teams that care enough to contend but have small arenas or other things not at levels of schools above)
  • Davidson - can they ditch mediocre coach nepo and use Curry NIL money wisely - similar boat to UR in that has fan support, but need to maximize what they do. Tiny student population doesn't help/could be recruiting issue. Have had solid success in A10 have to rediscover that.
  • Loyola. I'd hope Loyola's season is an aberration and they can be one of these teams in the top echelon. Small gym, and program still an unknown commodity in terms of facing this kind of adversity after moving up to A10 following recent success, especially given no real rival yet in league for fans to get excited over.

7-8. Question marks
  • Mason. Program is erratic. They rise and fall too much for my liking, but more so I don't trust their commitment and fan support (commuter school) if they don't have the perfect coach. B2B good hires - but can they keep it up?
  • Bonas - can Woj do something in the boonies for the Bonnies? Schmidt may have to go to do so. They have fan base who cares, which is good, but an endowment of only $95m.

9-14. Untrustworthy
  • URI. Would be my most likely to jump up a category (or multiple), but they have only been good when Hurley was there in the last 15 years. Have had fans/students care when they're good, but they're mostly not. Need to ditch Archie
  • GW - I don't understand this program, don't like their gym and don't know that their coach is getting them up to top of A10 regularly. Tell me why I'm wrong.
  • Saint Joe's - always some kind of issue. Never reaching past heights is an issue. Seem to be able to get some good players and never be able to make seasons click.
  • Lasalle - basically broke. Should be in another conference.
  • Fordham - as per the FU fan here last week, don't care about sports. On brand. Should be in Patriot League.
  • Duquesne - once a decade type relevance.
IMO - too many teams. As new commissioner, I'd lose the obvious two to consolidate a bit, then put a demand on program funding from those who are left. Don't assume the ADs are competent and push them at every turn to be great.
Click to expand...
Mostly concur, although you may have slightly rose colored glasses with us in 3-4 group. Nothing in our a10 history to support that obvs.

I’d also question the GMU rating, and they’re no more a commuter school than VCU is these days I think.

So many teams have shown good runs in the conference at various times, including GW, URI, Davidson and Joes. We really do struggle up and down with consistency, except for VCU.
 
Spide said:
Was wondering last night about the record for the 26 non-Power Conferences vs teams currently ranked in the AP Top 25. The overall record is 6-189. Twenty four of the conferences, including our mighty A10, have zero wins against ranked teams. To further clarify, Grand Canyon of the Mountain West has one win against ranked teams, while the West Coast Conference includes Portland with a single win and Gonzaga (moving soon to Pac 12) with 4 wins to make up the rest. To me, it is pure folly to think that our Spiders, fellow members of the A10 and other non-Power Conferences really matter in the overall scheme of things in D1 college basketball. Truth is, there are now the Power Conferences (ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Big East, SEC, Pac 12) and the Group of 26, much like in football with the Group of 5. As in football and now in basketball, the non Power Conferences should have their own schedules and championships, thus allowing for greater gratification among their members.
Click to expand...
I have said for some time I expect a FBS/FCS type split across the board in college sports. Question will there be a Group of 5 type ranking. The money/power difference continues to grow. I understand the Power 4 are already having these discussions, part of why they have "all" refused to play the "middle" teams.
 
MrTbone said:
Mostly concur, although you may have slightly rose colored glasses with us in 3-4 group. Nothing in our a10 history to support that obvs.

I’d also question the GMU rating, and they’re no more a commuter school than VCU is these days I think.

So many teams have shown good runs in the conference at various times, including GW, URI, Davidson and Joes. We really do struggle up and down with consistency, except for VCU.
Click to expand...
Real question - which teams in the tiers below UR have better resources, facilities, fanbase, etc.

Those are why I was slotting us in there - not because of results but because we should be there based upon what advantages we have.
 
brooklyn brownstone said:
Real question - which teams in the tiers below UR have better resources, facilities, fanbase, etc.

Those are why I was slotting us in there - not because of results but because we should be there based upon what advantages we have.
Click to expand...
Ok, by that measure then agree. Probably Davidson moves up then?

It’s undeniable that we do not seem to make the most of these advantages, although apparently we are being outspent. At least that’s what we are being told.
 
Spider2020 said:
It’s hard to compete. Let’s just move to D2. Mid majors can never beat a high major. March madness will be all chalk this year.

Did I do that right? Reality is the record stated above is wildly inflated because P5 teams will (mostly) only play low majors and on their home court. If they had home and homes with mid majors, the record would be much more respectable. That’s why in the past the thanksgiving tournaments have been so crucial - a chance for mid majors to play high majors on a neutral court. But even those are becoming less common.

Can we also note that we literally have a top 25 team within our own non-P5 conference?
Click to expand...
While Saint Louis is ranked, it has yet to beat a ranked team.
 
MrTbone said:
Ok, by that measure then agree. Probably Davidson moves up then?

It’s undeniable that we do not seem to make the most of these advantages, although apparently we are being outspent. At least that’s what we are being told.
Click to expand...
I think Davidson belongs in the same tier as UR as well from a resources and support standpoint.

Also seems like St Joe’s may belong in the empty ? tier. I don’t think they belong lumped in with the rest in the bottom tier. They are a legitimate question to me and it looks like a coaching change (gasp) helped their situation this year even with it occurring in the 11th hour.
 
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