Game Thread - Bonnie at RC - Sat 2/21 6pm ESPN+

[MrTbone]

Shameful.

Big congrats to the team, nearly hung 100 points on a historically strong Bonnies team. I say let's keep the momentum going and ride it to Pittsburgh.

I don’t condone wanting the team to lose but I not only get it but have on occasion been there myself.

Beating a bad team who lost because they managed to play even worse defense than we do is hardly encouraging. I admire your optimism but think it’s super unlikely there’s any kind of run forthcoming.

 

[Gkiller]

I don’t condone wanting the team to lose but I not only get it but have on occasion been there myself.

Beating a bad team who lost because they managed to play even worse defense than we do is hardly encouraging. I admire your optimism but think it’s super unlikely there’s any kind of run forthcoming.

Yeah that is far from shameful. Fans root for teams to lose when they can get a higher draft pick. They also root against a coach so he can be replaced. Fans r smart enough to give up a better short term that is meaningless and perpetuates the status quo. Sure it's not pro ball with draft picks looming but same concept, rooting for what they consider an outcome that leads to a much better long term.

 

[gospidersgo]

Yeah that is far from shameful. Fans root for teams to lose when they can get a higher draft pick. They also root against a coach so he can be replaced. Fans r smart enough to give up a better short term that is meaningless and perpetuates the status quo. Sure it's not pro ball with draft picks looming but same concept, rooting for what they consider an outcome that leads to a much better long term.

I get it and don't fault any of our fans for doing this.

And yet, I can't make myself root for a Spider loss. I've tried, and I 100% want a new coach.

Also, I'm not at all convinced that losing gets us a new coach. It just increases the creativity of the excuses for keeping our current one.

 

[Spiderguy]

I get it and don't fault any of our fans for doing this.

And yet, I can't make myself root for a Spider loss. I've tried, and I 100% want a new coach.

Also, I'm not at all convinced that losing gets us a new coach. It just increases the creativity of the excuses for keeping our current one.

I've stated here before that in spite of anything and everything that transpires in our basketball program, CM is here through contract duration. I just don't think they have the appetite to make a change before then. The choice & priority they're making is one coach over an entire program. Show us differently.

 

[MrTbone]

I get it and don't fault any of our fans for doing this.

And yet, I can't make myself root for a Spider loss. I've tried, and I 100% want a new coach.

Also, I'm not at all convinced that losing gets us a new coach. It just increases the creativity of the excuses for keeping our current one.

well we know with certainty that periodic losses (~45%) won’t give the AD heartburn. I think sustained losses including a lot of non competitive losses is a different dynamic.

He was on the hot seat the last time he had back to back 20-loss seasons and we’re nearing that territory if we end up with a third losing season in the past four. Difference is, his contract is good for at least another two years.

 

[ManiBenton]

We are 15-13 overall this year. Did you wake up for just one game?

He got up after the Mason game actually

 

[Gkiller]

I get it and don't fault any of our fans for doing this.

And yet, I can't make myself root for a Spider loss. I've tried, and I 100% want a new coach.

Also, I'm not at all convinced that losing gets us a new coach. It just increases the creativity of the excuses for keeping our current one.

Yep. I rooted hard for us to beat vcu even tho I give Moon a hard time for that - deservedly so. And I’ll root for us to win A10 tourney because ncaa is on the line. But both of those r so far fetched. But these other games? It just increases odds he’s back. While those odds r so great anyway anything to help the minuscule odds is ok. A real program that cares would have it on the table. At minimum it puts real hot seat pressure on next year, unless we don’t care at all about continuing to churn fans and relevancy.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

agree that no reason to root for losses because they're not replacing Moon barring an epic disaster of a season. This clearly isn't it. We'll probably finish 17-14 at .550 and right in line with historical average by Moon. They are fine with that. Progress over last season. And Memento-style no matter what happens next season, they'll have a "winning" season to fall back upon here to keep him again (no matter that it was buttressed by non-D1 and some of the worst D1 programs in the nation - Gardner Webb, VMI, etc.)

The scary part is what if we land like 2 portal studs? The potential for that one very good year that draws an extension is the elephant in the room. I want the Spiders to win every game. It's just that under Moon they win 17 of 31 on average and all of us here would like that baseline number to be like 22, with peaks of 26-29 in the best years.

 

[*23*]

Here you go Brooklyn for next year, Moon will have that Dji/Bigs/King/Hunt/Quinn type of season again, this time getting us to 2nd game in A10 tourney before heartbreaking loss.
Here is the blue print for next season:
Guards: Get AA his bag, he is back and better than ever, takes a step forward off a great Freshman season. Simmons JR is the real deal, a Gilly clone and again we have that diminutive back court that is just a pain to play against, even if they have to cover 6'10 guys on switch a lot. Tyne starts but Simmons plays a lot. Portal addition of a legit scoring 2 guard with size. Good depth with David Thomas back, and Harper III take a step forward too, gaining some good experience this season.
Wings: Richardson comes on like gang busters. Tanner back. Ideally pick up a Dji type clone in the portal, but need to use our limited NIL on a big.
Big Forward: Jrob keeps improving, after getting good experience, adds some offense. Daughtry - Mooney figures out how/when to use him to get 10+ points/game and hide him a bit on defense.
Big Man: Mooney gets a skilled big in the portal. Goes to PQ and PQ kicks in extra 500K. Chad Cook comes in with college ready body. I do think he is a good fit for our offense. Homenick is a big body that can give minutes in emergency.

Like others have been proposing, Mooney huddle with his inner circle, cracks open spidernation.com, reads 17 and others posts advising to hoard his NIL budget on big targets, and back in business.

 

[97spiderfan]

The scary part is what if we land like 2 portal studs? The potential for that one very good year that draws an extension is the elephant in the room. I want the Spiders to win every game. It's just that under Moon they win 17 of 31 on average and all of us here would like that baseline number to be like 22, with peaks of 26-29 in the best years.

This is unlikely for several reasons.

1. Mooney has completely whiffed in his two prior NIL seasons and now we think he can land not just 1 portal stud by 2.
2. Our existing roster is crap. Assuming we keep AA this year (which is a big assumption), we literally have no one else on the roster that is an A-10 caliber starter. We have zero big men (not counting our redshirt guy who had no other D-1 offers). Tanner is our starting 3 and for the past 2 years we have annoitted him the starter and he has lost it both years. Tyne is probably our other starting guard, he is playing like 12 minutes a game. I like me some J-Rob but he hasn't lit the world on fire with his minutes, other than a few exciting athletic plays. And then a bunch of guys who haven't played this year on a team finishing 11th in the A-10.

He could land two studs and I think our roster is still not very good, but lets be real, Mooney isn't landing 2 studs.

 

[*23*]

97 - tend to agree with your thoughts on what will actually play out with roster. My scenario is more what I feel like Moon is pitching to Hardt and PQ. PQ is more worried about LAX, and Hardt just stares blankly at Mooney and keeps moving down the hall to his office.

 

[97spiderfan]

97 - tend to agree with your thoughts on what will actually play out with roster. My scenario is more what I feel like Moon is pitching to Hardt and PQ. PQ is more worried about LAX, and Hardt just stares blankly at Mooney and keeps moving down the hall to his office.

I forgot about Daughtry. He is a nice piece but damn he needs to learn how to play defense better.

I agree and doubt Mooney gets fired. But if he does stay, next year's current roster construction, should be enough to finally slay the dragon at the end of next year. It sucks that we will have to remain in purgatory for 1 more year though.

 

[Gkiller]

I forgot about Daughtry. He is a nice piece but damn he needs to learn how to play defense better.

I agree and doubt Mooney gets fired. But if he does stay, next year's current roster construction, should be enough to finally slay the dragon at the end of next year. It sucks that we will have to remain in purgatory for 1 more year though.

exactly. purgatory is not where u want to be but that's a perfect description. As noted by Eight Legger our admin doesn't understand opportunity cost. we're going to lose more $ digging out of a deeper hole. The $ piece of eating his contracts is way down the list of concerns to me. That's a blip to U of R. We talk about not historically doing that, but who thinks Pres. Cooper didn't get paid on his way out. We've done it plenty for other things to go away. And maybe just maybe the buyout cost is less. of course we don't know because U of R is "private".

 

[fan2011]

Not sure where to put this, but one thing I love about JRobs game is that he is constantly moving without the ball, more so than anyone else on the team. He is very active. He has the physical tools and the drive to be very good, hoping to see him get there over his career

 

[ur2K]

Agree on JRob, lots of good things to develop there - but he's definitely not a 5 where we've plugged him in this year for a lot of his minutes (by necessity) but who knows where he fits under normal circumstances.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

to clarify, I meant that he lands 2 studs in the remaining years (he has until 2029!!!!), not necessarily this year, and not necessarily both in the same year.

So here is the timeline that I fear because it means more Moon, but honestly I'm not rooting against any AA led team(s) so...

Assumption #1 - I assume we are looking for a center and a tall, athletic shooting forward in the portal this offseason as our primary concerns.

This offseason, he lands Quinn + Bigs equivalents (solid players, not game-changers, but foundational upperclassmen with a couple years left), enough to keep the ship afloat next season, but like all players "learning" Moonball means you're good in year 2, not year 1. AA continues to develop his 3 ball and his finishing at the rim and looks poised for a year 3 run at A10 first or second team. So year 1 (next year) is - as mentioned - treading water. 17-14 season, we can again score and again struggle to defend anyone and again play sisters of the poor 13 times OOC.

The following offseason, with 2 years left on the contract and him being acutely aware of it, he then gets a scoring dynamo like King to play next to rising junior AA after Tyne and Thomas graduate (along with Tanner and Daughtry). This year's center transfer and wing transfer make Quinn/Bigs year 2 leaps, with the center becoming the 2nd stud player (basically Quinn/3rd team A10) and the guys like JRob, Harper and any other HS recruits are now in the system multi years and comfortable playing with one another, adding some size, shooting and athleticism, and improved defense as a whole. Our backcourt is lights out with AA and the portal scorer. That is a good season - let's say top 4 in A10 and 22 wins minimum with AA, Jordan King clone, Harper, JRob, A10 3rd team center starting and the best of the HS recruits and portal lands prove to have at least 2 impact guys.

At that point Hardt has to make the call on an extension or let Moon coach out the last year of his deal without a contract, which is basically telling him he's gone no matter what. AA is a rising senior at that point, maybe a couple other returnees like Harper and JRob have made statistical leaps and we have a glimmer of light that the season after a good one is not falling off a cliff.

Hardt fires up the 3 year extension, no doubt in my mind.

 

[PhillySpider]

to clarify, I meant that he lands 2 studs in the remaining years (he has until 2029!!!!), not necessarily this year, and not necessarily both in the same year.

So here is the timeline that I fear because it means more Moon, but honestly I'm not rooting against any AA led team(s) so...

Assumption #1 - I assume we are looking for a center and a tall, athletic shooting forward in the portal this offseason as our primary concerns.

This offseason, he lands Quinn + Bigs equivalents (solid players, not game-changers, but foundational upperclassmen with a couple years left), enough to keep the ship afloat next season, but like all players "learning" Moonball means you're good in year 2, not year 1. AA continues to develop his 3 ball and his finishing at the rim and looks poised for a year 3 run at A10 first or second team. So year 1 (next year) is - as mentioned - treading water. 17-14 season, we can again score and again struggle to defend anyone and again play sisters of the poor 13 times OOC.

The following offseason, with 2 years left on the contract and him being acutely aware of it, he then gets a scoring dynamo like King to play next to rising junior AA after Tyne and Thomas graduate (along with Tanner and Daughtry). This year's center transfer and wing transfer make Quinn/Bigs year 2 leaps, with the center becoming the 2nd stud player (basically Quinn/3rd team A10) and the guys like JRob, Harper and any other HS recruits are now in the system multi years and comfortable playing with one another, adding some size, shooting and athleticism, and improved defense as a whole. Our backcourt is lights out with AA and the portal scorer. That is a good season - let's say top 4 in A10 and 22 wins minimum with AA, Jordan King clone, Harper, JRob, A10 3rd team center starting and the best of the HS recruits and portal lands prove to have at least 2 impact guys.

At that point Hardt has to make the call on an extension or let Moon coach out the last year of his deal without a contract, which is basically telling him he's gone no matter what. AA is a rising senior at that point, maybe a couple other returnees like Harper and JRob have made statistical leaps and we have a glimmer of light that the season after a good one is not falling off a cliff.

Hardt fires up the 3 year extension, no doubt in my mind.

This would be my worst nightmare come to life! Agree that if that transpires, we give him an extention!

 

[vt4700]

to clarify, I meant that he lands 2 studs in the remaining years (he has until 2029!!!!), not necessarily this year, and not necessarily both in the same year.

So here is the timeline that I fear because it means more Moon, but honestly I'm not rooting against any AA led team(s) so...

Assumption #1 - I assume we are looking for a center and a tall, athletic shooting forward in the portal this offseason as our primary concerns.

This offseason, he lands Quinn + Bigs equivalents (solid players, not game-changers, but foundational upperclassmen with a couple years left), enough to keep the ship afloat next season, but like all players "learning" Moonball means you're good in year 2, not year 1. AA continues to develop his 3 ball and his finishing at the rim and looks poised for a year 3 run at A10 first or second team. So year 1 (next year) is - as mentioned - treading water. 17-14 season, we can again score and again struggle to defend anyone and again play sisters of the poor 13 times OOC.

The following offseason, with 2 years left on the contract and him being acutely aware of it, he then gets a scoring dynamo like King to play next to rising junior AA after Tyne and Thomas graduate (along with Tanner and Daughtry). This year's center transfer and wing transfer make Quinn/Bigs year 2 leaps, with the center becoming the 2nd stud player (basically Quinn/3rd team A10) and the guys like JRob, Harper and any other HS recruits are now in the system multi years and comfortable playing with one another, adding some size, shooting and athleticism, and improved defense as a whole. Our backcourt is lights out with AA and the portal scorer. That is a good season - let's say top 4 in A10 and 22 wins minimum with AA, Jordan King clone, Harper, JRob, A10 3rd team center starting and the best of the HS recruits and portal lands prove to have at least 2 impact guys.

At that point Hardt has to make the call on an extension or let Moon coach out the last year of his deal without a contract, which is basically telling him he's gone no matter what. AA is a rising senior at that point, maybe a couple other returnees like Harper and JRob have made statistical leaps and we have a glimmer of light that the season after a good one is not falling off a cliff.

Hardt fires up the 3 year extension, no doubt in my mind.

If we go 17-14 next year, that likely means 7-11 at best A-10, which would be 3 straight years and 4 of 5 at under .500 and 7 or fewer wins A-10.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

VT, I hesitate to trigger you but with what we have returning, I fully expect another complete garbage OOC, so I'm thinking a mirror of this season basically takes place.

OOC - 10 wins, all against bad teams, non-D1 teams and lower mid majors on down seasons. Moon showed this year he can't beat any OOC schedule for more than 10 wins, no matter how bad it is. Minimum 1 awful loss and 2 road losses.
Sweep a bottom feeder in A10 like SBU was this year. - 2 wins
Beat Fordham - 1 win
Beat Lasalle - 1 win
Upset someone decent at home - 1 win
Beat Duquesne - 1 win
1 random well played win.
get swept by VCU.
get killed by other top 3 teams.

 

[Spiderguy]

This would be my worst nightmare come to life! Agree that if that transpires, we give him an extention!

You’d hope they’d wise up by that point in time. History is taught to be learned, and history repeats.