The Mooney System is in itself one of the main problems. I don't care how much we spend & what type of players come here. He & his system are problematic.
Portal Work
- Thread starter *23*
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PhillySpider
Bench player
I don't for one second believe the problem is NIL money. Which is not to say that I don't believe the numbers or relative standing that have been reported. But honestly, "its always something" with Mooney. For a long time it was admissions were too hard and he couldn't recruit the guys he wanted or couldn't get guys in etc. There is always a ready made excuse and a group of administrators ready to buy into it. And the biggest problem I think is that he doesn't really want to fight to fix these "problems". He honestly doesn't want the accountability that might come with that. As is, his job is safe for life and when we don't perform, he trots out an excuse and the admin nods at him and says "yup - - true that" and he goes about his business until he catches lighting in a bottle again and gets another extension. No accountability because the excuse is built-in and he has no risk. If he goes in and stomps his feet to get $5 mil in NIL and they actually give it to him, suddenly someone might actually expect results commensurate with that and he might (heaven forbid) be held accountable and he might actually put his job more at risk!
He no doubt wants to win and would prefer it over losing (duh) so we can't say he doesn't care, but I don't think he cares to fight much. Doesn't want to fight to overcome the obstacle and doesn't want to fight his admin to get what he wants because that eliminates an excuse and adds accountability.
He no doubt wants to win and would prefer it over losing (duh) so we can't say he doesn't care, but I don't think he cares to fight much. Doesn't want to fight to overcome the obstacle and doesn't want to fight his admin to get what he wants because that eliminates an excuse and adds accountability.
97spiderfan
Starter
No idea what the pay scale is for our athletes, so can't comment on if 500K is crazy or not. However, AA is probably in the running with Lewis of VCU for A-10 ROY. So, if he gets ROY, what is his worth then to other schools. That will make him stand out and be more sought after.
It is sad, but we almost have to hope he doesn't win ROY because that will drive up his price and his suitors.
Eight Legger
Starter
This is the thing, right here. ALWAYS something. And the thing is, every team in America can make excuses if it wants to. Every team has things go wrong every year. Guys get hurt, they play in a hard league against teams with more money than them, they are younger than other teams, whatever. Some coaches go out and win anyway. Others latch onto excuses to blame for their lack of performance.
Spider17
All A-10 player
I think the NIL will probably be closer to $250K like I said in a previous post, but $500K may not be far fetched. He probably will win A10 ROY. He has a great sense of the game, always seems to anticipate his teammates movements well, good at drawing fouls, and can create his own shot and be an affective scorer. What if a middle of the pack team wants to take a chance on him as a back up PG and offers him that much. There’s a point where we’ll have to say no, but I can see us paying up to $500K to keep the one proven A10 level player we have on our roster next year if P5 teams take notice and want to take a chance on him. Only reason he isn’t in the P5 now is because he’s 2 inches too short.
*23*
Assistant coach
Again those were just two examples off top of my head. Theoretical with Stevenson. He got his bag this year. Maybe doesn't have confidence in his PT next year and want to try to be the guy at a little lower level. obviously his dad and uncle did very very well here. One was recruited by NC State and chose UR, other one transferred from Penn State. He already lived his UNC dream this season. If I was a GM I could come up with possible players and be I touch with their handlers all effing day. For bargain price of 500k. If Moon had any motivation he would get the money to get players. But he plays and coaches scared. He is scared that if he gets the players, he can't manage them and can't use them to the best of their ability. Just sorry.
*23*
Assistant coach
Agree on all accounts. Have heard similar money for similar players.
Spiders4ever
Starter
How much did Burton get at Villanova? I'm not even sure if he was a starter there.
Is AA as valuable as Burton was here?
Is AA as valuable as Burton was here?
Spider17
All A-10 player
Reports on here have suggested Burton received $500K. That’s why I don’t think it’s crazy to think Argabright will be offered that much as well. 1) because NIL has only got more inflated the past few years and 2) Argabright will have 3 more years of eligibility after this so there’s more upside. Again, this isn’t P5 starter level money but as a back-up, there are many schools that will offer that if they think he can contribute on their team. Then there’s always the possibility he performs really well there as a back-up and his last 2 years gets paid P5 level starter money.
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. Just kidding sman, but u are underestimating in this case I think.I don't think this would matter much. If he finishes 2nd in ROY, every team that is interested in him will view him exactly the same way as if he won ROY. His highlights and stats will be no different. I would not want my coach making decisions based on awards, and I doubt many do.
500k for a guard at UR makes no sense to me, especially next year.
1) Guards are the one position that UR can recruit well and a promising freshman is on the way. In addition, there are many more quality guards available than the other positions.
2) The team is not going to be any better next year and likely worse.
3) A mid-major program is not going to be able to pay players the same as a P4 one. The revenue stream is simply not the same.
It is similar to saying the cost of a 5,000 sq ft home is the same no matter the location.
But it isn’t my money, so spend away.
1) Guards are the one position that UR can recruit well and a promising freshman is on the way. In addition, there are many more quality guards available than the other positions.
2) The team is not going to be any better next year and likely worse.
3) A mid-major program is not going to be able to pay players the same as a P4 one. The revenue stream is simply not the same.
It is similar to saying the cost of a 5,000 sq ft home is the same no matter the location.
But it isn’t my money, so spend away.
Spider17
All A-10 player
Times have changed. If we want to continue recruiting and keeping KA, K0, SDJ, Gilly kind of players then we’re going to need the financial investment.
So because we’re going to be worse next year means we shouldn’t spend the money to bring in or maintain good players?
We won’t be able to compete with P5’s for P5 starter caliber players, especially at top programs. However, there are 15 scholarship players on a basketball team now. P5’s are going to prioritize and give more money to the top 7-8 players. But player 9 and 10 who’s on the bench at a place like Virginia Tech, Vanderbilt, Cincinnati, will still be good. So if we identify those kinds of players well, we can compete with P5s for 1 or 2 of them. We won’t have a full roster of P5 players, but that’s what I’ve been saying. We can definitely recruit 1-2 and then find a couple 3 star or under recruited players like Argabright who turn out to be very good and then all of a sudden we have a starting roster of A10 level players.
If we want known quality players - and not try to find the diamond in the rough player and hope to develop him to be a great player which we have shown we cannot do consistently - then that’s what it’s going to take. I don’t see why the player being a guard should preclude them from getting that kind of money. If they’re good, they’re good.
brooklyn brownstone
Starter
interesting part of this discussion is that everyone seemingly hates the transient nature of the portal but when it comes to spending other peoples' money, they are happy to (theoretically) kick players to the curb with lowball or static offers. Bit of a disconnect?
I feel like people are using their heart and not their head when it comes to these evaluations. With all the secrecy involved and no actual rules, we are living in a fantasy land where the agents who get paid a percentage are driving the narrative. Someone knows the actual revenue involved and only they know what that can add to the equation. Donations are a wildcard, but I can’t understand why anyone would want to fund an 11th place staff with top 3 conference money. Then there is actual marketing value dollars (real NIL) and I can’t see much of that being available in a small private school in Richmond, VA.
I definitely can see what many of the college greats cut their careers short because this new reality of college basketball is definitely not something that a true coach is going to like. A program does need a general manager for these business type decisions, but of course that adds to the number of decision makers and it is easier to be a dictator than a negotiator.
Guess we will see what happens in the offseason.
MrTbone
Starter
I wonder if there’s just a lack of confidence or ability to evaluate talent. Too often it feels like we are bringing guys here who are deep bench role players or flat out can’t play.
It sort of feels like they’re just recruiting flatly and hoping someone rises rather than knowing someone is “the guy”.
Very true. They are treating the portal like high school recruiting. We should know what we are getting with portal guys. We should know their fit, know their games, know how they play defense. We need a better strategy, and I think it starts with spending more money on a big time player or players and less money on role players, but players who still fit for us.
brooklyn brownstone
Starter
Also, to harp on the same old subject - the Moonball offense - but except for King I don't recall a portal guy from a lower level coming in and having better numbers than at previous school in year 1.
I know the A10 is a step up in competition, but ALL the guys out of 15 except 1 have a numbers drop in year 1? Seems like Moon needs to figure out how to find a feature guy like King again or change his scheme that makes guys worse in their short time here. That it takes a guy 2 years to play a comfortable game in UR's scheme is ridiculous - you'll never have a team fully gelling that way nowadays, someone important (and usually multiple pieces) will always still be "learning" the offense.
Quinn
Roche
Bigs
King - exception, numbers improved in year 1.
Hunt
Harris
GWIII - n/a really didn't play at Michigan or UR.
AP - n/a comparison as he didn't play at UConn, but not impressive in year 1.
Beagle
B. Artis
Nescovic
Johnston
Thomas - worse than at Mercer, EDIT: I double checked and he has almost identical stats to time at DePaul. So he's a push.
Lopez
Daughtry
I know the A10 is a step up in competition, but ALL the guys out of 15 except 1 have a numbers drop in year 1? Seems like Moon needs to figure out how to find a feature guy like King again or change his scheme that makes guys worse in their short time here. That it takes a guy 2 years to play a comfortable game in UR's scheme is ridiculous - you'll never have a team fully gelling that way nowadays, someone important (and usually multiple pieces) will always still be "learning" the offense.
Quinn
Roche
Bigs
King - exception, numbers improved in year 1.
Hunt
Harris
GWIII - n/a really didn't play at Michigan or UR.
AP - n/a comparison as he didn't play at UConn, but not impressive in year 1.
Beagle
B. Artis
Nescovic
Johnston
Thomas - worse than at Mercer, EDIT: I double checked and he has almost identical stats to time at DePaul. So he's a push.
Lopez
Daughtry
Last year's portal additions were really head scratchers. White and GW added nothing for us. Dusan could score, but that's about it, and AP kept shooting and missing 3s. We did better this year talent wise, but all the additions were better offensively than defensively. A Tyler Harris type would have been a better fit than Daughtry, but who knows if we looked for one.
