Urmite
Starter
Exactly my point…
Rebounds? We don’t have to show you no rebounds…we don’t need no stinking rebounds!
We've got our big, and he's from Bucknell
- Thread starter SFspidur
- Start date
Rebounds? We don’t have to show you no rebounds…we don’t need no stinking rebounds!
brooklyn brownstone
Starter
this guy has Davidson big guy written all over him, for whatever you think of that type of player.
That would be great. Davidson has had a lot of quality bigs that have done very well in the A-10. If this guy were great defensively and a big time rebounder, we would not have had a chance at him. There are only so many do it all bigs out there, and they are P5 now with the portal. I think this a very positive addition for us, and expect him to be a big time factor in the A-10.
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*23*
Assistant coach
I had actually made the same point before we signed this guy. Its a crazy NIL world for bigs out there. Dorries (this season anyway) just didn't quite look strong enough to have the funny money thrown his way by the p5's. I do think it is good to strike early, as the inventory goes down and price up for bigs as we go along. Much needed signing. Still a ton of work to do.
Big, Athletic, good shooting 2 high on my wish list, and another either big wing/stretch four. If we can land some good two way guys at those positions I think we have done OK in the portal. Then go look for your Tyler Harris types to add depth.
Big, Athletic, good shooting 2 high on my wish list, and another either big wing/stretch four. If we can land some good two way guys at those positions I think we have done OK in the portal. Then go look for your Tyler Harris types to add depth.
CityStadiumFan
Bench player
I thought this was a delayed post about John Hardt's hiring....but in all seriousness looks like a very good addition.
sman
All A-10 player
exactly. if he was averaging 16 ppg with his eFG% ... AND he was grabbing 8 rpg and blocking 3? he'd be talking to UNC, Michigan and Kentucky, not us.
we landed a 6'11" skilled big man who seems like an alpha 5, not a 5th option on offense. and like 23 pointed out, it's important that we got in early. I think a lot of P5s who are after big men would eventually get to Dorries as their options dwindle. kudos to Dorries for grabbing an offer from someone who really wants him, not somebody's 3rd choice.
PhillySpider
Starter
So, I don't know what else what else our money could buy, so I won't pan this entirely but I will say that I am not nearly as excited as the board seems to be. I saw Bucknell in person a few times and on the TV/tape a few more. So first off, they were terrible - clearly worse than us I would say - - which makes everything harder to judge etc. I will start with the good - - - he can score and he scored as a primary scorer when other teams knew he was a go to guy which says something. Decent but not prolific (in attempts or percentage) from deep. Very skilled, but needs to be because he isn't very athletic or strong. The rebounding question is real- - he isn't good at it at all. Athleticism is a problem there for sure and likely isn't going to change, but its possible he at least gets stronger. He is terrible defensively - - absolutely flat out bad and I don't think its from lack of effort. Really struggles with lateral movement so can't guard anyone in space and also isn't very good down low due to strength issues. At 6' 11" in a low D1 league he got no blocks so he will be much more liability than help on defense all the way around. Also, I don't see him as a fit for the Mooney high post offense. He isn't a good (or willing) passer at all and turns it over a ton. His ATR is very bad and not at all Mooney like.
Reminds me a lot of Neskovic before he came to us. He's a bit taller and a bit more offensively skilled down low than Dusan but not really much to his game besides some scoring on a bad team. Also a bit Daughtry like - has some scoring chops but not much else and not a great fit for our system. Guys who score but nothing else on bad teams really worry me. As a reminder, Michael CArter-Williams won Rookie of the year in the NBA because he played on a horrible Sixers team and he scored because they ran everything for him etc. But turned out he couldn't really play or help any sort of decent team. That's sorta what we found out with Dusan too. Dorries is at least younger, so we can hope some evolution. Also saw where someone said our last Patriot transfer big worked out. But Quinn and this guy are polar opposites. Quinn was strong (best low post defender we have had for a very long time) and an excellent passer with an underdeveloped offensive game. Dorries is dead opposite.
And any thoughts we beat out anything other than the very low end of P5 (if that) for him seems highly unlikely to me. He can't defend or rebound his position at all and for any sort of P5 he won't be a primary scorer with an offense feeding him etc. and thus would really have no role. We need some scoring and some size, so we make a decent fit for him in that regard, but I don't think this a real game changer signing that we are hoping for and maybe the board sees! As many have said, any sort of complete big is probably out of our price range, so he is probably worth the shot!
Reminds me a lot of Neskovic before he came to us. He's a bit taller and a bit more offensively skilled down low than Dusan but not really much to his game besides some scoring on a bad team. Also a bit Daughtry like - has some scoring chops but not much else and not a great fit for our system. Guys who score but nothing else on bad teams really worry me. As a reminder, Michael CArter-Williams won Rookie of the year in the NBA because he played on a horrible Sixers team and he scored because they ran everything for him etc. But turned out he couldn't really play or help any sort of decent team. That's sorta what we found out with Dusan too. Dorries is at least younger, so we can hope some evolution. Also saw where someone said our last Patriot transfer big worked out. But Quinn and this guy are polar opposites. Quinn was strong (best low post defender we have had for a very long time) and an excellent passer with an underdeveloped offensive game. Dorries is dead opposite.
And any thoughts we beat out anything other than the very low end of P5 (if that) for him seems highly unlikely to me. He can't defend or rebound his position at all and for any sort of P5 he won't be a primary scorer with an offense feeding him etc. and thus would really have no role. We need some scoring and some size, so we make a decent fit for him in that regard, but I don't think this a real game changer signing that we are hoping for and maybe the board sees! As many have said, any sort of complete big is probably out of our price range, so he is probably worth the shot!
You said it best with your last comment..... A complete big is out of our price range and P5 bound. But, it is up to us to adjust to any flaws he might have. Our roster screamed we had to add a guy like this. I am excited about him because he is a position of need at probably the hardest spot to fill in the portal. He is young and it is possible his defense could improve. If we have good defenders on the court with him, that would also help tremendously. If I had a talented guy who could score, but wasn't athletic or strong, I would hope he was a big. You can get away with a big like that, but it is harder at other positions. I will continue to think Dorries is a great addition.
sman
All A-10 player
you make some great points, Philly. I'm still excited though. not many freshmen at any D1 level are as productive. the skills are visible. comparable to any of our centers as a shooter. has the spin move in the lane. has great length. gets to the rim.
he does need to get stronger but he just turned 20. can't necessarily count on anyone staying any more, but he has 3 years remaining. there's a lot of upside. defensively ... as VT said a lot depends on who's on the floor with him. Kaiser is supposedly tough on D. Simmons looks like a dawg. not sure what we're doing at the big forward spot, but we have a lot of offense already. hopefully we add a physical guy.
he does need to get stronger but he just turned 20. can't necessarily count on anyone staying any more, but he has 3 years remaining. there's a lot of upside. defensively ... as VT said a lot depends on who's on the floor with him. Kaiser is supposedly tough on D. Simmons looks like a dawg. not sure what we're doing at the big forward spot, but we have a lot of offense already. hopefully we add a physical guy.
Spider17
Assistant coach
Good analysis Philly and agree that there are certainly aspects about his game that would need improvement to produce well at the A10 level. VT and sman said it perfectly so I won’t belabor the point much more, but if he had 20 pounds more muscle, averaged 8 instead of 4 rebounds a game, and defended better, he would be talking to UConn or Duke.
For our results the past 2 years and budget we are operating with (much higher than last year but still less than P4s) this was a very solid recruit to land. Especially when great bigs are highly sought after. Lots to be impressed with him now and there is a ton upside since he is a freshman. I like that he’s had experience playing basketball in Germany before coming here too. Has a lot of experience already.
I don’t know if we can rely on him just yet to be our 25+ mpg at the 5. I imagine we will go after a 6’7”, 6’8” power forward player who can also play the 5 spot if needed. There’s also Homenick and maybe JRob if we absolutely have to, but personally I prefer JRob to be at the 3 or 4.
For our results the past 2 years and budget we are operating with (much higher than last year but still less than P4s) this was a very solid recruit to land. Especially when great bigs are highly sought after. Lots to be impressed with him now and there is a ton upside since he is a freshman. I like that he’s had experience playing basketball in Germany before coming here too. Has a lot of experience already.
I don’t know if we can rely on him just yet to be our 25+ mpg at the 5. I imagine we will go after a 6’7”, 6’8” power forward player who can also play the 5 spot if needed. There’s also Homenick and maybe JRob if we absolutely have to, but personally I prefer JRob to be at the 3 or 4.
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All very entertaining. The portal seems like speed dating and if Mooney and Company can’t seem to land A10 level high school talent consistently then I don’t know how anyone expects them to thrive in this environment. I’m not a scout, so I will wait to see what this prospect can deliver.
The only good news is that there are some signings in this busy 2 week period, which is better than none.
The only good news is that there are some signings in this busy 2 week period, which is better than none.
MDSpider8
Bench player
Didn't realize that Dorries advanced metrics were that poor...he was only the 51st ranked player in the Patriot league in EvanMiya BPR. He had a -1.13 defensive BPR. Quinn was the 4th ranked BPR player in the Patriot in '21-'22 and and had a 0.98 defensive BPR. Scares me a bit more.
Still optimistic that his overall offensive skill will be a major upgrade for us offensively though...hoping the staff can help get him a bit stronger and having a better cast around him may raise his overall floor.
Eight Legger
Starter
Just pretend analytics don't exist and you'll feel better!
MrTbone
All A-10 player
I knew you were on the coaching staff.
This is an example of advanced metrics being so silly and misleading. So, I am supposed to be concerned about a -1.13 defensive rating putting Dorries at 46th in his conference when a rating of - 0.06 ( 1 point a game difference) would have put him 20th?
PhillySpider
Starter
This is sort of my point - - the best player on a bad team will "produce" if we define production as simply scoring. Even really bad teams will score 60-70 points a game and someone is going to get them. It doesn't actually tell you too much about them and even less about how they will do at another level and in a new role.
I'd quite frankly much rather see us take a "incomplete" guy who looks like he can defend and rebound but maybe isn't so skilled and doesn't score and hope we can develop his offense, rather than the other way around. Part of this is that Moon is (supposedly) an offensive coach and really emphasizes offense and in theory can really teach it. At least Id have hope that a guy might develop as an offensive player with the great Mooney system and the man himself teaching etc. I see near zero chance for a guy light on defense and rebounding to develop those traits under this regime because they simply don't emphasize it all. My biggest problem with the Moon era is our attachment to that offensive system and resultant attachment to guys who know how to run it - - even if they don't actually make plays, much less defend or rebound. Put simply, defense and rebounding don't earn time under Mooney. Neither does offensive playmaking. But simply running the offense "correctly" and making few mistakes does! So lets get the guys who can defend and will be heavily motivated to get better offensively so they can play than the other way around.
As a reminder, last year as we were announcing transfer arrivals, there was much excitement on here about the proven and productive players we were bringing in, but also, from a few, words of caution about their lack of defensive chops. and we see how that worked out. An already "complete" big is no doubt out of range, but I'd like to see us tip the scales on "incomplete" players we can get to the ones who can defend and rebound and try and develop their offensive game!
Now again, all that said, we need to get some bodies in here and I have no idea what else we could have done so if its the best we can do, then we need to do it. But I don't know that its going to work out the way we hope and I just really think the other way has more chance of success for us!
*23*
Assistant coach
Philly, if you read my first post, i basically said very similar to you - a bit more brief. I do like your point getting a less complete guy with room to grow, and athletically superior and can play D and rebound. Kind of like my point this offseason, that there are a ton of guys that rotted on P5 benches this season, that would absolutely dominate the likes of Will Johnston, David Thomas, etc. Pasha would be a star in the A10. That is the guys I would rather us nab than the limited guy from low major that is a decent enough player, but put up good stats either on a bad team (neskovic) or just by being pretty good in a low level league. This is why I liked the second Butler guy, at least he had the physical tools to compete in all facets.
Again, with Dorries, big men are an even tougher market than usual with current NIL inflation. So we grab him and hope he can improve those areas - but will be limited by athleticism. Even Quinn, took two years - and he had p5 interest. If he was available now, he would get funny money, we wouldn't have got him.
Again, with Dorries, big men are an even tougher market than usual with current NIL inflation. So we grab him and hope he can improve those areas - but will be limited by athleticism. Even Quinn, took two years - and he had p5 interest. If he was available now, he would get funny money, we wouldn't have got him.
Kneepad McKinney
Bench player
Fortunately, at least we won't have a laterally-limited, poor defending big man out on the perimeter switching onto ball-handling guards that could expose the defensive limitations...
