Game Thread - W&M at RC - Tuesday 11/11 7pm ESPN+

[Spiderguy]

Two huge positives I see with this team:

2. Offensive rebounding: I'm not sure what I am seeing out there but guys are crashing the boards, not retreating after a shot goes up, and low and behold, we are getting second chance points and fouls. Again, this is a strength of our personnel (Beagle, Walz, Tanner, AP, Daughtry).

It is going to be interesting to see this play out because we all know this is the exact opposite of how Mooney wants to play. Will he continue to let them play to their strengths or will he revert back to his preferred offensive tendencies. His postgame comments about offensive rebounding were not encouraging as he basically said it was situational due to the way William & Mary plays.

Based on Mooney’s comments on the rebounding, it was definitely a record he isn’t going to highlight.

Typically we are in the mid 300's of college teams on offensive rebounds. Mooney's choice to play prevent defense as opposed to crashing the boards for second chance points. IMHO not a good strategy. Not a good place to be. We have the players this year that show they can rebound defensively and offensively. Last night was a great showing on the boards both ends. Makes for much more exciting basketball for players and fans.

And here is Mooney basically implying he will revert to his norm. That's my best description of his intentions. Maybe there is better wording???? Play to the teams strengths not some conservative strategy. We're showing rebounding is a positive thing and a difference maker. Can be a real plus in league play. Kind of like someone winning the lottery & saying they'll just keep living in their 800 square foot apartment and driving 25 year old car.

 

[Spider17]

Great observations, agree with them all. On point #2. After Tyne made his 3 to put us up 8, Mooney called his patented timeout and inserted a 3 guard line-up for the first time all season. As soon as he did this, I commented that this was a terrible decision. I'm sure the thought process was to go with the 3 guards because of the press. But W&M had been pressing pretty much the whole game and we handled it with 2 guards well enough. Secondly, we removed Lopez from the line-up which was how we were scoring most of our points in the 2nd half, by him (and others) driving and get fouled. Three guard line-up makes us a 3 point shooting team, which is not our strength.

It was just coaching mal-practice, both not understanding your team and how it was effectively scoring that night, nor understanding the situation which we were handling quite well and replacing it with something new. Predictably in backfired and W&M tied it up, until he put Lopez back in and guess what he scored 5 points by driving/getting fouled.

This is just a microcosm of why I can never trust Mooney as a good X and O's guys. He is quite simply unable to deviate from his plan. I'm sure the game plan was go to a 3 guard set if we were up by a certain amount under 3-4 minutes. Which might have looked good when we drew up it, but then you see how the game is being played and you have to realize that changing that up from what is working is a bad idea and you have to flush that strategy. He can't do that.

He also removed the hot hand several times during the game (Walz in the first half), Johnston and Lopez in the second, for planned substitutions. When a dude is on a heater, you don't take him out of the game. Again coaching 101 here that we lack.

I get trying to adjust personnel based on the opponents players and how the game is going, like others have noted perhaps Daughtry was taken out because he was getting beat by the wings.

My concern is that we can try and get too cute and analytical with switching players to the point it disrupts a players game, flow, rhythm, etc. We want to minimize weakness but also play to our strengths. Our strengths yesterday was clearly getting to the basket and rebounding with 2nd chance points. We should not have veered away from that.

 

[*23*]

I think it may take Daughtry some time to get back up to game speed and conditioning, due to his downtime this off season. He looked really good vs a slow D3 team, but I also noticed some bad defense - one sequence in particular he got burned. Hoping once he gets another month of conditioning he is a consistent player for us. He did come in with concerns on the defensive end, so not sure how much that side will improve - but I think both he and JRob will have to be really big contributors if we want to compete with the VCU's of the world.

 

[Eight Legger]

I watched about 5 minutes of the game and listened to another 5 or 6, so I'm not really qualified to comment too much, but I hope the rebounding thing sticks. That said, here we are again, year after year, either barely beating W&M or losing to them. There's really no world in which this game should be closer than 15 points in our favor, ever.

 

[Urmite]

We will see if this continues but…
Three things I am not used to are, against D1 we are averaging 41 FTs, 43 rebounds, with 11 guys playing 12 to 27 minutes…

 

[97spiderfan]

I watched about 5 minutes of the game and listened to another 5 or 6, so I'm not really qualified to comment too much, but I hope the rebounding thing sticks. That said, here we are again, year after year, either barely beating W&M or losing to them. There's really no world in which this game should be closer than 15 points in our favor, ever.

Yes, this was most disappointing for sure but also not as disappointing as losing to W&M, which we have also done with far too much frequency. I was optimistic after we put a beat down on an American squad in ECU, my optimism was tempered though by having to go a full 40 minutes to beat William and Mary.

 

[Plydogg]

As others have said, I think this is a game we lose by double digits each of the past two seasons. That press was no joke and it really wears on you over a full game. I thought we did well breaking it.

I also thought Roumoglou played particularly good defense. He was 3rd in total rebounds but led the team in defensive boards. It looks like he’s willing to do the dirty work and it showed. His +11 was second to only Walz, showing how well we did with him out there.

He’s shooting 1-12 on the season. Maybe if he sees a few go in he’ll start to gain some confidence back. With our depth, he can be a really important player if he’s consistently scoring 6-8 per night. Right now it’s wishful thinking, but I think there’s something in him waiting to be unlocked.

 

[SensibleSpider]

I have been meaning to comment on this thread but haven't gotten around to it until now.

I disagree with those that are saying AP is a bad defender. I'd actually argue for his size he moves way better laterally than Daughtry and Tanner (despite being a few inches taller). He seems to be in the correct position defensively which I think the coaching staff values more than we realize. I'm not sure what folks are seeing when they say he is a poor defender? He also has shown the ability to provide some rim protection, there was a very good block that wasn't counted during the game because of the primary defenders on the floor foul but it was great defensive help on the drive. No doubt his shooting must improve but I'm still holding out hope. He also handled the ball well in the few times he was asked to help break the press. 0 turnovers helps too.

Speaking of the press, abysmal job all around. Johnston looked like a freshman instead of 5th year guy. There are two things you can't do when breaking a press - pick up your dribble and get count in the corner on the inbounds. Johnston kept picking up his dribble and had to call timeout, turned the ball over or barely beat the 10 second call on numerous occasions. Really glad to see his outside shot get going, the team will need him to be a consistent shooter.

Tyne also was less than stellar breaking the press. There was one time in particular that he started to break one way towards the corner and just completely stopped and the inbounder through the ball for a turnover. I can't quite figure out why the offense seams to not run as efficiently with him at the 1 but I think he honestly just dribbles too much. Happy to see his shot is falling this year though.

I thought Argabright looked the most composed and handled the pressure best of all the guards, kudos to him. The kid has some serious moxie. Loved the way he plays with aggressiveness and intention every time he touches the ball. As others have stated, I was worried that Mooney was so pissed at him after the first half TO that we may not see him again but luckily that wasn't the case. It seems like his play may prove to be a crucial piece to this team's success.

I think Beagle has been great so far. I really hope he continues to crash the offensive boards (and is allowed to do so). He's been crisper than Walz thus far in the season and seems to be much more intentional about taking the ball to the hoop.

Agree with others than Tanner had a good game. Really impressed with a few of the rebounds he gathered and hope to continue to see him gain some confidence out there.

 

[Section9_RowD]

I have been meaning to comment on this thread but haven't gotten around to it until now.

I disagree with those that are saying AP is a bad defender. I'd actually argue for his size he moves way better laterally than Daughtry and Tanner (despite being a few inches taller). He seems to be in the correct position defensively which I think the coaching staff values more than we realize. I'm not sure what folks are seeing when they say he is a poor defender? He also has shown the ability to provide some rim protection, there was a very good block that wasn't counted during the game because of the primary defenders on the floor foul but it was great defensive help on the drive. No doubt his shooting must improve but I'm still holding out hope. He also handled the ball well in the few times he was asked to help break the press. 0 turnovers helps too.

Speaking of the press, abysmal job all around. Johnston looked like a freshman instead of 5th year guy. There are two things you can't do when breaking a press - pick up your dribble and get count in the corner on the inbounds. Johnston kept picking up his dribble and had to call timeout, turned the ball over or barely beat the 10 second call on numerous occasions. Really glad to see his outside shot get going, the team will need him to be a consistent shooter.

Tyne also was less than stellar breaking the press. There was one time in particular that he started to break one way towards the corner and just completely stopped and the inbounder through the ball for a turnover. I can't quite figure out why the offense seams to not run as efficiently with him at the 1 but I think he honestly just dribbles too much. Happy to see his shot is falling this year though.

I thought Argabright looked the most composed and handled the pressure best of all the guards, kudos to him. The kid has some serious moxie. Loved the way he plays with aggressiveness and intention every time he touches the ball. As others have stated, I was worried that Mooney was so pissed at him after the first half TO that we may not see him again but luckily that wasn't the case. It seems like his play may prove to be a crucial piece to this team's success.

I think Beagle has been great so far. I really hope he continues to crash the offensive boards (and is allowed to do so). He's been crisper than Walz thus far in the season and seems to be much more intentional about taking the ball to the hoop.

Agree with others than Tanner had a good game. Really impressed with a few of the rebounds he gathered and hope to continue to see him gain some confidence out there.

agree with all of the above - AP can't shoot so far but contributed for sure.

I am hoping that we're close to the point of Aiden A never getting the freshman talk again after a turnover. I'm not really sure if Gilly ever got that talk and yes he did have a few TO's freshman year- looked up Gilly's stats recently and he averaged 36 min as a freshman - pretty insane - and I hope and think Aiden A is our next superstar Spiders PG.

 

[72Spider]

Aiden and Deuce next year

 

[vt4700]

Yes, this was most disappointing for sure but also not as disappointing as losing to W&M, which we have also done with far too much frequency. I was optimistic after we put a beat down on an American squad in ECU, my optimism was tempered though by having to go a full 40 minutes to beat William and Mary.

I need to wait before having that opinion. I like the Tribe's coach and they could cause some trouble for some good teams this year. Time will tell, but as of now, I thought we played a pretty goid game overall.

 

[vt4700]

Johnston played 29 minutes and had 5 assists and only had 1 turnover against a team that pressed all game. You can't be perfect out there and I thought he had a real good game.

 

[URFan1]

agree with all of the above - AP can't shoot so far but contributed for sure.

I am hoping that we're close to the point of Aiden A never getting the freshman talk again after a turnover. I'm not really sure if Gilly ever got that talk and yes he did have a few TO's freshman year- looked up Gilly's stats recently and he averaged 36 min as a freshman - pretty insane - and I hope and think Aiden A is our next superstar Spiders PG.

From my time coaching young little leagure players, teaching the basics. AP has what I used to call "loose shoulders" when he shoots, it can be corrected.

 

[gospidersgo]

Agree with others above, our breaking of the press was pitiful. All the cardinal sins - picking up the dribble with no plan, multiple guys sprinting toward the same spot on inbounds, baseball passes to the other team, etc.

If we get pressed with that intensity and VCU's athletes (instead of W&M), we lose that game by double digits.

 

[Spiders4ever]

Agree with others above, our breaking of the press was pitiful. All the cardinal sins - picking up the dribble with no plan, multiple guys sprinting toward the same spot on inbounds, baseball passes to the other team, etc.

If we get pressed with that intensity and VCU's athletes (instead of W&M), we lose that game by double digits.

Play zone against them

 

[97spiderfan]

I have been meaning to comment on this thread but haven't gotten around to it until now.

I disagree with those that are saying AP is a bad defender. I'd actually argue for his size he moves way better laterally than Daughtry and Tanner (despite being a few inches taller). He seems to be in the correct position defensively which I think the coaching staff values more than we realize. I'm not sure what folks are seeing when they say he is a poor defender? He also has shown the ability to provide some rim protection, there was a very good block that wasn't counted during the game because of the primary defenders on the floor foul but it was great defensive help on the drive. No doubt his shooting must improve but I'm still holding out hope. He also handled the ball well in the few times he was asked to help break the press. 0 turnovers helps too.

Speaking of the press, abysmal job all around. Johnston looked like a freshman instead of 5th year guy. There are two things you can't do when breaking a press - pick up your dribble and get count in the corner on the inbounds. Johnston kept picking up his dribble and had to call timeout, turned the ball over or barely beat the 10 second call on numerous occasions. Really glad to see his outside shot get going, the team will need him to be a consistent shooter.

Tyne also was less than stellar breaking the press. There was one time in particular that he started to break one way towards the corner and just completely stopped and the inbounder through the ball for a turnover. I can't quite figure out why the offense seams to not run as efficiently with him at the 1 but I think he honestly just dribbles too much. Happy to see his shot is falling this year though.

I thought Argabright looked the most composed and handled the pressure best of all the guards, kudos to him. The kid has some serious moxie. Loved the way he plays with aggressiveness and intention every time he touches the ball. As others have stated, I was worried that Mooney was so pissed at him after the first half TO that we may not see him again but luckily that wasn't the case. It seems like his play may prove to be a crucial piece to this team's success.

I think Beagle has been great so far. I really hope he continues to crash the offensive boards (and is allowed to do so). He's been crisper than Walz thus far in the season and seems to be much more intentional about taking the ball to the hoop.

Agree with others than Tanner had a good game. Really impressed with a few of the rebounds he gathered and hope to continue to see him gain some confidence out there.

Someone else made the comparison to Deion Taylor with AP. And while they are different players, they generate the same results. Lots of minutes, zero impact on the offensive end to the point of it being a negative when they are out there. They both were adequate defenders, but nearly good enough on defense to justify the lack of contribution on the offensive end. If you are going to play a player who can't do anything productive on offense, they have got to be a lockdown defender. AP is not a lockdown defender.

 

[sman]

maybe it was due to his injury, but my recollection of Deion was that he was nowhere near as agile as AP. he was very strong but didn't move all that well (though he could jump). we certainly wouldn't put him at the top of a press like we've done with AP.

if what we've seen from AP so far is who he is, I don't think he's going to help us. but we have a weak enough OOC schedule to give it time and let it play out. at some point he has to prove to be a threat from 3. if he's not by the end of the year, then give those minutes to Daughtry and JRob.

 

[Spiderguy]

maybe it was due to his injury, but my recollection of Deion was that he was nowhere near as agile as AP. he was very strong but didn't move all that well (though he could jump). we certainly wouldn't put him at the top of a press like we've done with AP.

if what we've seen from AP so far is who he is, I don't think he's going to help us. but we have a weak enough OOC schedule to give it time and let it play out. at some point he has to prove to be a threat from 3. if he's not by the end of the year, then give those minutes to Daughtry and JRob.

Good post. However, on balance and looking at all pros and cons, I’d put Daughtry and JRob ahead of AP now. We’ve seen AP last year and this year and know what we’re getting with him. Those other 2 guys need more minutes.

 

[Spider17]

Better social media videos this year.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1989479531925655927

 

[fan2011]

Only down 5 to St. John’s at the half