Game Thread - W&M at RC - Tuesday 11/11 7pm ESPN+

[Section9_RowD]

Love seeing both Beagle and Walz both having good games - they feed off each other imo Beagle was fired up and loud in pre-game workouts and ended with a double double and Walz had great stretch in latter half of 1st half.

 

[*23*]

Fun game, though agree with 13, refs way too ticky tacky both ways.

Need Argabright handling vs press.

Beagle with double double. Loved his aggression and enthusiasm.

Nice to see AJ get going. We need him and Johnston to combine for 25 to 30 consistently.

Tyne and Tanner with solid games.

 

[Spiderguy]

And why is AP in there again? No reason for his minutes vs Daughtry's minutes in this game!

This is reminding me of the Deion Taylor era. Did nothing for 4 years except always move from point A to point B in the offense correctly, And at least he could defend some. Ap can't defend.

Only in second year but possibly Mooney loyalty factor????

Got several rebounds. That’s a positive. But shouldn’t be shooting 3 pointers.

I haven’t seen minute’s distribution, but he seemed to get way more second have mins than Daughtry and JRob. From this fan’s perspective seeing Rom last year and this year so far, I’d think he should be option after Daughtry and JRob. I’d be curious of Mooney’s reasoning.

 

[72Spider]

Happy for the win. Very interesting to see a team that looks very different than Mooney teams of the past.

I think we are seeing why the schedule is the way it is. W+M is not a good team and took us to the wire on our home court. We need to shoot better and play better defense to beat better teams.

WM trying the old Loyola Marymount run and gun style (under Paul Westhead). Not terribly talented but I guess this gives them the best chance to win.

 

[Spider17]

Happy that spiders found a way to win. These games have both been very entertaining in terms of offense and not entertaining with all the fouls, which makes it difficult to watch.

Here are my thoughts on the game.
- Again, love the physicality in which we play. We play aggressive driving to the paint and we fight for rebounds. We out rebounded W&M 53-36 and had 22(!!) offensive rebounds. When has that ever happened before? This is an identity of teams Mooney has never had in the 12 years I’ve been watching Richmond bball. This is what we’ve all been clamoring for and there’s no coincidence that the more aggressive teams tend to win games
- Argabright is such a great player. He’s going to be an all-timer for us when it’s all said and done
- Walz had a much better game and so did Tanner. Johnston had a great shooting night
- Need to limit turnovers more
- Practice has to focus on breaking the press. As others have commented, Johnston was getting caught in the corner and getting trapped in a double team.

- Some coaching decisions by Mooney I didn’t like:
1) Keeping Daughtry out of the game for most of 2nd half. Refs were calling so many fouls. He has a good sense of getting to the basket. Don’t know why we didn’t take advantage of that more.
2) There was a point in the 2nd half where we were up by 5 or 7 points with under 2 minutes. We settled for jump shots which allowed W&M to get back into the game. It wasn’t until Lopez was driving to the basket that the game was out of reach. Needed to do that earlier and have the refs call the fouls which they’ve been doing all day
3) I don’t mean to harp on the guy, but what has AP done to deserve meaningful minutes and at the end of the game? He’s 0-10 in 3 point shooting in the first 3 games. He rebounds well but otherwise isn’t the best defender. I want to see Daughtry and JRob fill that role more.

Overall, glad to get the win. Can’t get in a foul contest and shootout every night. I want to see us tighten the rotation up more and play to our guys strength of physical, in the paint, bully ball. W&M will be a better team this year so hopefully this game sneaks into the Q3 territory instead of Q4.

 

[MDSpider8]

Only in second year but possibly Mooney loyalty factor????

Got several rebounds. That’s a positive. But shouldn’t be shooting 3 pointers.

I haven’t seen minute’s distribution, but he seemed to get way more second have mins than Daughtry and JRob. From this fan’s perspective seeing Rom last year and this year so far, I’d think he should be option after Daughtry and JRob. I’d be curious of Mooney’s reasoning.

Noticed this too - AP played 18 minutes to Daughtry’s 11 and JRob’s 8. Don’t think either of Daughtry or JRob played in the last 10 minutes or so.

 

[Spiderguy]

Happy that spiders found a way to win. These games have both been very entertaining in terms of offense and not entertaining with all the fouls, which makes it difficult to watch.

Here are my thoughts on the game.
- Again, love the physicality in which we play. We play aggressive driving to the paint and we fight for rebounds. We out rebounded W&M 53-36 and had 22(!!) offensive rebounds. When has that ever happened before? This is an identity of teams Mooney has never had in the 12 years I’ve been watching Richmond bball. This is what we’ve all been clamoring for and there’s no coincidence that the more aggressive teams tend to win games
- Argabright is such a great player. He’s going to be an all-timer for us when it’s all said and done
- Walz had a much better game and so did Tanner. Johnston had a great shooting night
- Need to limit turnovers more
- Practice has to focus on breaking the press. As others have commented, Johnston was getting caught in the corner and getting trapped in a double team.

- Some coaching decisions by Mooney I didn’t like:
1) Keeping Daughtry out of the game for most of 2nd half. Refs were calling so many fouls. He has a good sense of getting to the basket. Don’t know why we didn’t take advantage of that more.
2) There was a point in the 2nd half where we were up by 5 or 7 points with under 2 minutes. We settled for jump shots which allowed W&M to get back into the game. It wasn’t until Lopez was driving to the basket that the game was out of reach. Needed to do that earlier and have the refs call the fouls which they’ve been doing all day
3) I don’t mean to harp on the guy, but what has AP done to deserve meaningful minutes and at the end of the game? He’s 0-10 in 3 point shooting in the first 3 games. He rebounds well but otherwise isn’t the best defender. I want to see Daughtry and JRob fill that role more.

Overall, glad to get the win. Can’t get in a foul contest and shootout every night. I want to see us tighten the rotation up more and play to our guys strength of physical, in the paint, bully ball. W&M will be a better team this year so hopefully this game sneaks into the Q3 territory instead of Q4.

Really good analysis! I enjoyed reading your post.

 

[carolinaspider]

Daughtry and Jrob were slow to cover the wing and AP was doing a more effective job doing that.
I think we have to realize there are going to be different heroes each game with the depth we have.
Against press Will Johnston struggles with ball handling by getting caught in corner or on sideline.
Tyne, AA and Lopez are best options bringing ball up court.

Missed some drives but got to the foul line. Some were ticky tack calls. We were little lax on covering 3 pt line
and could have been due to all the line up changes and wondering who to cover or having to double team due to
a bad switch.

 

[97spiderfan]

2) There was a point in the 2nd half where we were up by 5 or 7 points with under 2 minutes. We settled for jump shots which allowed W&M to get back into the game. It wasn’t until Lopez was driving to the basket that the game was out of reach. Needed to do that earlier and have the refs call the fouls which they’ve been doing all day
3) I don’t mean to harp on the guy, but what has AP done to deserve meaningful minutes and at the end of the game? He’s 0-10 in 3 point shooting in the first 3 games. He rebounds well but otherwise isn’t the best defender. I want to see Daughtry and JRob fill that role more.

Great observations, agree with them all. On point #2. After Tyne made his 3 to put us up 8, Mooney called his patented timeout and inserted a 3 guard line-up for the first time all season. As soon as he did this, I commented that this was a terrible decision. I'm sure the thought process was to go with the 3 guards because of the press. But W&M had been pressing pretty much the whole game and we handled it with 2 guards well enough. Secondly, we removed Lopez from the line-up which was how we were scoring most of our points in the 2nd half, by him (and others) driving and get fouled. Three guard line-up makes us a 3 point shooting team, which is not our strength.

It was just coaching mal-practice, both not understanding your team and how it was effectively scoring that night, nor understanding the situation which we were handling quite well and replacing it with something new. Predictably in backfired and W&M tied it up, until he put Lopez back in and guess what he scored 5 points by driving/getting fouled.

This is just a microcosm of why I can never trust Mooney as a good X and O's guys. He is quite simply unable to deviate from his plan. I'm sure the game plan was go to a 3 guard set if we were up by a certain amount under 3-4 minutes. Which might have looked good when we drew up it, but then you see how the game is being played and you have to realize that changing that up from what is working is a bad idea and you have to flush that strategy. He can't do that.

He also removed the hot hand several times during the game (Walz in the first half), Johnston and Lopez in the second, for planned substitutions. When a dude is on a heater, you don't take him out of the game. Again coaching 101 here that we lack.

 

[sman]

my only complaint is that it looked like we'd never seen a man to man full court press. had trouble even getting it in bounds, and when we did we didn't always have strong ball handlers to break it. AA and Tyne are probably our only above average handlers.

regarding AP, he handles surprisingly well. that may be why Mooney wanted him out there against the press. and I actually think he defends better than most of you think. tough inside and he gets out to the perimeter. might get beat sometimes, but at least gets out there. that's half the battle.

this may end up being one of out best rebounding teams in the Mooney era. Beagle, Walz, AP, Daughtry and Tanner are all plus rebounders. JRob certainly will be as well when he gets enough time.

we're a deep team. still no idea how we'll look playing a top 100 team.

 

[97spiderfan]

Daughtry and Jrob were slow to cover the wing and AP was doing a more effective job doing that.
I think we have to realize there are going to be different heroes each game with the depth we have.
Against press Will Johnston struggles with ball handling by getting caught in corner or on sideline.
Tyne, AA and Lopez are best options bringing ball up court.

Missed some drives but got to the foul line. Some were ticky tack calls. We were little lax on covering 3 pt line
and could have been due to all the line up changes and wondering who to cover or having to double team due to
a bad switch.

Our defense seemed to do a lot of chasing and we were not good guarding the 3 point line. As much as I like our offense right now, the defense is sending out some alarm bells. Mooney admitted this in the postgame that guys aren't in position and are doing a lot of reaching as a result.

A man defense might help us this year wish we would use it more, it eliminates all of the switching, which leads to mismatches and guys being left open during the switch. Just stay on your man and I think we would do better.

 

[RichmondNative]

Have to start with Beagle. Another great outing with a double double this time. Love the effort he is putting in and he only had one turnover.

Walz had a rather quiet 9/9 game. Could just be that he wasn’t as noticeable as Beagle.

Glad that Lopez and Johnson provided the scoring that was expected of them coming into the season. I’m not as high on Lopez as many are as he is reminding me of Dusan and iso ball. Obviously works well when the refs have a quick whistle and you are money from the FT line. Realize that the drives are better than continued passing around the perimeter with no shot which happened a bunch last year. Really surprised that Johnson couldn’t handle the press and has the tendency to put himself in bad locations on the court. Doesn’t seem like something an experienced guard should do at all.

AA had a good game as is becoming the standard other than his leading pass that lead to his temporary benching. Couldn’t believe the ghost tripping foul that was called on him late in the second half.

A win is a win and it is good that the Spiders were tested. I am not expecting tough games from the next two opponents and then we will see how the Spiders fare on the road as well as in the first back to back games.

 

[97spiderfan]

Two huge positives I see with this team:

1. We are not relying on the 3 ball. This team is driving to the hoop and getting to the line. We are NOT a good 3 point shooting team but we have a bunch of guys who can get to the rack (Lopez, Daughty, Aiden, Tyne, Beagle, J-Rob). The more we play to these guys strengths the better.
2. Offensive rebounding: I'm not sure what I am seeing out there but guys are crashing the boards, not retreating after a shot goes up, and low and behold, we are getting second chance points and fouls. Again, this is a strength of our personnel (Beagle, Walz, Tanner, AP, Daughtry).

It is going to be interesting to see this play out because we all know this is the exact opposite of how Mooney wants to play. Will he continue to let them play to their strengths or will he revert back to his preferred offensive tendencies. His postgame comments about offensive rebounding were not encouraging as he basically said it was situational due to the way William & Mary plays.

 

[97spiderfan]

Have to start with Beagle. Another great outing with a double double this time. Love the effort he is putting in and he only had one turnover.

Walz had a rather quiet 9/9 game. Could just be that he wasn’t as noticeable as Beagle.

Glad that Lopez and Johnson provided the scoring that was expected of them coming into the season. I’m not as high on Lopez as many are as he is reminding me of Dusan and iso ball. Obviously works well when the refs have a quick whistle and you are money from the FT line. Realize that the drives are better than continued passing around the perimeter with no shot which happened a bunch last year. Really surprised that Johnson couldn’t handle the press and has the tendency to put himself in bad locations on the court. Doesn’t seem like something an experienced guard should do at all.

AA had a good game as is becoming the standard other than his leading pass that lead to his temporary benching. Couldn’t believe the ghost tripping foul that was called on him late in the second half.

A win is a win and it is good that the Spiders were tested. I am not expecting tough games from the next two opponents and then we will see how the Spiders fare on the road as well as in the first back to back games.

Johnson had a good game scoring the ball. The Dusan comparison struck me. I see the comparison. Both can score via volume but do they improve the overall "team" when they are on the court. Too early to tell but something to watch.

One thing I know is Aiden is taking minutes from either Tyne or Johnston moving forward. Will be interesting to see whose minutes get eaten into the most.

 

[RichmondNative]

It is going to be interesting to see this play out because we all know this is the exact opposite of how Mooney wants to play. Will he continue to let them play to their strengths or will he revert back to his preferred offensive tendencies. His postgame comments about offensive rebounding were not encouraging as he basically said it was situational due to the way William & Mary plays.

Based on Mooney’s comments on the rebounding, it was definitely a record he isn’t going to highlight.

I think that we are seeing these differences because of all the substitutions. Mooney even said it in the pregame comments that he has been very focused on the substitutions and it has taken his attention away from other things. I know it has been harder for me to track things in live action as well (easier at home looking at stats along with game).

We will see how long it lasts, but I don’t think we will see this pattern when A10 play starts. Mooney will default back to standard operating procedure.

 

[carolinaspider]

Johnson had a good game scoring the ball. The Dusan comparison struck me. I see the comparison. Both can score via volume but do they improve the overall "team" when they are on the court. Too early to tell but something to watch.

One thing I know is Aiden is taking minutes from either Tyne or Johnston moving forward. Will be interesting to see whose minutes get eaten into the most.

if we are pressed then Johnston sits more, if we need scoring maybe Johnston in more, though this was sort of a breakout game for Johnston and Lopez. Aiden is just so quick and elusive and not afraid to shoot. Daughtry and JRob sat more second half, mainly in my mind because we were rebounding well and needed more ball handling due to pressure. In a game played more in the half court, Daughtry and JRob will be needed more for pounding the boards and attacking the lane. Between ECU and W&M styles, I think most saw that our depth allows for better matchups through more lineup choices.

Like what I see so far and no comparison to last year, but the test will be playing a tougher team and are we able to match the level of competition.

 

[Bergen Spider]

Johnston does look awkward in the backcourt but if his needing to call a timeout to avoid a turnover once a game stops Mooney from calling the “we’ve got em on the ropes let’s call a timeout” situation then I am all for it.

 

[*23*]

Couple thoughts:

That one write up I posted some time ago showed very specific stats that Johnston is not a PG and scores much much much more efficiently off the ball, on catch and shoot. So Mooney needs to use him that way. And he did score yesterday so that is good. But Argabright and Tyne do need to be the guys that handle against the press - even though Tyne is small - he does have handle and quickness to get by it or to a spot he can see the pass. Argabright just needs to keep getting big minutes.

Lopez - Yes he has a scorers mentality. But I did see him looking to move the ball. He may very well have saved this game with his drives to the hoop and scores when everyone else seemed to be tightening up. If we are going to have any kind of ceiling, we are going to need him to produce. Kudos to Mooney for sending him back in the game and letting him cook. Difference with Dusan is Lopez has the quickness and bounce to make it happen. But to sman's point - as with all these guys - will have to see how they fair in stepped up competition.

I have banged on Tanner a lot last season. Have to give him his flowers now. Thought he has looked pretty darn solid (airballed three late not with standing). Rebounding has been good. Looking to get to rim and finish, and hit a pull up or two. Defense looked OK to me , did not notice anything glaring.

Agree Walz had quiet game despite the stats. Seemed very motivated in first half. Later in the game just looks out of sort when he has to make a play when things are hectic. Just not a ton of instincts when he has to make a play.

Beagle - Been enjoying watching him. Playing heady and aggressive and passionate. Loved seeing him get on AP for something. He has been leading by example.

Argabright - Great job again. As with the great one's he is not letting the system make him think too much, when he has an advantage - he takes if full speed and usually works out.

 

[Urmite]

Great observations, agree with them all. On point #2. After Tyne made his 3 to put us up 8, Mooney called his patented timeout and inserted a 3 guard line-up for the first time all season. As soon as he did this, I commented that this was a terrible decision. I'm sure the thought process was to go with the 3 guards because of the press. But W&M had been pressing pretty much the whole game and we handled it with 2 guards well enough. Secondly, we removed Lopez from the line-up which was how we were scoring most of our points in the 2nd half, by him (and others) driving and get fouled. Three guard line-up makes us a 3 point shooting team, which is not our strength.

It was just coaching mal-practice, both not understanding your team and how it was effectively scoring that night, nor understanding the situation which we were handling quite well and replacing it with something new. Predictably in backfired and W&M tied it up, until he put Lopez back in and guess what he scored 5 points by driving/getting fouled.

This is just a microcosm of why I can never trust Mooney as a good X and O's guys. He is quite simply unable to deviate from his plan. I'm sure the game plan was go to a 3 guard set if we were up by a certain amount under 3-4 minutes. Which might have looked good when we drew up it, but then you see how the game is being played and you have to realize that changing that up from what is working is a bad idea and you have to flush that strategy. He can't do that.

He also removed the hot hand several times during the game (Walz in the first half), Johnston and Lopez in the second, for planned substitutions. When a dude is on a heater, you don't take him out of the game. Again coaching 101 here that we lack.

Actually I think Tyne, Argabright, and Johnston played together a few times last night.

 

[SpiderLaw05]

Lots of good observations in this thread. I will just add (as others have noted), this is a game we could have easily lost. Last year's team most certainly would have lost this game, and I can think of other CM teams that would have lost (despite having more talent than W&M) this kind of game. Whether we "should" be in such a close game with W&M is a different (and certainly fair) question, but I think there's value that the team stood tall, weathered the storm, and came out with a close win.