Game Thread - @ GW Saturday 1/24 3pm USA

[Eight Legger]

I would take Terry Allen and ShawnDre on any team you want to throw out there. Not sure why you would use them as examples of poor recruiting.

I didn't explain that too well, admittedly. I viewed TA and SDJ as quality players but was saying we still couldn't win with them. Deion and Trey Davis were part of the reason why; they either were overestimated as recruits, were not coached up, etc., and the result was no tourney berths. TJ obviously was a generational player here too and even that wasn't enough. I wasn't blaming them, I was just suggesting that Mooney wasn't able to get it done, for whatever reason, and the opportunity to capitalize on back to back NCAAs went away.

 

[vt4700]

I didn't explain that too well, admittedly. I viewed TA and SDJ as quality players but was saying we still couldn't win with them. Deion and Trey Davis were part of the reason why; they either were overestimated as recruits, were not coached up, etc., and the result was no tourney berths. TJ obviously was a generational player here too and even that wasn't enough. I wasn't blaming them, I was just suggesting that Mooney wasn't able to get it done, for whatever reason, and the opportunity to capitalize on back to back NCAAs went away.

I hear u. Deion and Trey needed to be reserves, not starters, and, even though recruiting was much better 10 years ago, we still could have used another piece or two to get us over the hump and into the dance.

 

[97spiderfan]

Good points, 97. And add having your PG switch to guarding the other team's big.

Right. I was going to say that we do that all of the time on defense anyway.

 

[SFspidur]

That was my first real red flag on Mooney, when we failed to capitalize on the back-to-back NCAAs with recruiting.

Recruiting classes are of course mostly lined up before the previous season finishes, but coming out of that 2010 NCAA, we managed to get Anthony, ANO, Davis and Piotrowski lined up to come in for 2011–12. KA2 was obviously great and ANO played well in his role, but Davis should not have been a starter and Piotrowski bombed. Felt like that class should have been better.

Then the following recruiting class was where the sirens started blaring. Coming off of two NCAAs in a row, and all we were able to land were TA and Deion. TA was great and Deion had some injury issues that really hampered him, but the big issue for me was that we graduated four scholarship players ahead of that class..Duinker, Garrett, FCM, and Conor Smith, and only replaced them with two guys. How are you coming off such fantastic seasons and you can't even fill your slots?

And then from there it was a complete collapse...next season had SDJ but also Josh Jones and Tim Singleton. Next year had Fore, Diekvoss, Friendshuh, and Smithen. Next year had Johnson, Pistokache, and Dominaus. SDJ was great, Fore was an incomplete player but contributed, and JJ disappointed until late in his career. Everybody else was a nothingburger. That is a really sad three years of recruiting when things should have been at their best with two NCAAs including a Sweet Sixteen still shining brightly for us.

 

[*23*]

Then the following recruiting was where the sirens started blaring. Coming off of two NCAAs in a row, and all we were able to land were TA and Deion. TA was great and Deion had some injury issues that really hampered him, but the big issue for me was that we graduated four scholarship players ahead of that class..Duinker, Garrett, FCM, and Conor Smith, and only replaced them with two guys. How are you coming off such fantastic seasons and you can't even fill your slots?

That was a weird recruiting cycle. We were in on some top 50/100 types - final 3 if I recall (maybe one was the vaunted AWIII ???, another guy choose NC State). But there did not seem to be a plan B when we whiffed. I remember the disappointment, and thought the same thing - we should be in great position to land some studs. But nope. I was one of the few that was hoping he would move on to take the BC or some other job. I was very pro Mooney then, but just thought the cycle kind of had run its course and let's get our next new hot coach. But no, we gave the 10 year contract and a big motivator was stripped away.

 

[SFspidur]

Yeah, we were competing with some big-time schools, and we whiffed on all of those guys. No Plan B as you said.

We missed on Terry Henderson twice...once in that class where he signed with WVU and then a couple years later when he transferred and picked NC State over us and Maryland.

 

[97spiderfan]

Mooney's long term success in high school recruit is and has always been absymal. He's been here for 21 years so he has gotten us some very good players, but rarely more than 1 really good player per class and there is just no way to build a program when that is what you do. And as you point out, there were a few years, where he struck out completely, which is death knell for a program and a coach. Except for here of course.

The backfilling with substandard recruits after missing out on our main targets is what soured me. When we are recruiting kids like Diekvoss and Domanus who literally no one else was recruiting those were huge red flags to me and were a sign that he was not ever fully invested in making the program great but rather making himself look OK.

He has major leadership flaws which should be fireable offenses but somehow his nice guy, likeable demeanor, allows him to get away with being very very average at his job.

 

[Urmite]

Beagle and McGlothin out, Walz questionable.

Did they say if McG was illness or injury?

 

[SpiderRick]

After the two year/sweet sixteen NCAA, Mooney inked a 10 year contract for a minimum million+.
Hunger breeds success, complicacy does not.

 

[SFspidur]

Did they say if McG was illness or injury?

All I saw was the availability report, which doesn't specify anything other Out or Questionable.

 

[Spiderguy]

After the two year/sweet sixteen NCAA, Mooney inked a 10 year contract for a minimum million+.
Hunger breeds success, complicacy does not.

And has been back to the NCAA all of once since then with probabilities at minimal anytime soon.

 

[97spiderfan]

Did they say if McG was illness or injury?

McGothlin has been unavailable all year, not sure he needs an injury designation.

 

[SFspidur]

McGothlin has been unavailable all year, not sure he needs an injury designation.

While this is seemingly true, the GW game was the first one where he was explicitly listed as Out on availability reports, so definitely something other than "coach's decision" kept him out this time.

Kirby is back though! He was out for 6 games and became available again as of the Rhode Island game.

 

[sman]

Then the following recruiting class was where the sirens started blaring. Coming off of two NCAAs in a row, and all we were able to land were TA and Deion. TA was great and Deion had some injury issues that really hampered him, but the big issue for me was that we graduated four scholarship players ahead of that class..Duinker, Garrett, FCM, and Conor Smith, and only replaced them with two guys. How are you coming off such fantastic seasons and you can't even fill your slots?

And then from there it was a complete collapse...next season had SDJ but also Josh Jones and Tim Singleton. Next year had Fore, Diekvoss, Friendshuh, and Smithen. Next year had Johnson, Pistokache, and Dominaus. SDJ was great, Fore was an incomplete player but contributed, and JJ disappointed until late in his career. Everybody else was a nothingburger. That is a really sad three years of recruiting when things should have been at their best with two NCAAs including a Sweet Sixteen still shining brightly for us.

somewhere in there we added my man, TJ Cline. back then transfers had to sit a year.
same with Marshall Wood a year or so later.

the Malcolm Bernard fiasco was around the same time. that one hurt.

 

[MrTbone]

I would take Terry Allen and ShawnDre on any team you want to throw out there. Not sure why you would use them as examples of poor recruiting.

I read that as saying those were among the quality recruits, not bad ones.

We have a lot of bad ones we can all name.

 

[MrTbone]

Our recruiting failures for much of 2010-2020 were pretty epic. Never could seem to get the guy we wanted, got a lot of guys that no one else really seemed to want, and got transfers who often made zero impact.

If you get on average 3.5 recruits per class, you only need 1 from each to be quality to have a fighting chance at a decent starting lineup. But you need that second set to be respectable bench, that gives you eight guys. The rest can be practice players, although every additional guy drastically improves your program strength.

We have had years we not only couldn’t get the starter guys, but couldn’t even get the bench guys. That’s hugely problematic.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Nelson-Ododa was the same class as Luke.

I mentioned Luke bc he was a bust not bc he was important to the point. IIRC something like 15/17 guys in the spot that is a 5 under Moon fit the current standing archetype. Garrett and ANO the exceptions (no I'm not including 1 season afterthought additions JMA and Kwesi.) So the last exception was recruited in what 2012?

We have had success from the position so it's often not been the biggest issue, but really, no guys not in this current archetype can fit on the team?

I honestly think they recruit in a rut. One small guard has success? What if we had 3 or 4 small guards on the same team? Same with these 5s, it's like we recruited copies of the really good players (TJ, Grant) at the position hoping that you could develop the skills those guys possessed when they showed up here. But they're just not that level player, so why not add an athletic shot blocker who rim protects as a change of pace? That kind of guy helps a lot when you have the type of perimeter defense UR has this season.