Game thread - @ VCU Tuesday 1/27 7pm CBS Sports Network

[brooklyn brownstone]

Spider17, if you recall, you got some SpiderWill heat on here for many of these types of takes. It's not that you cannot enjoy a season as it happens, but if the goal of playing is to win a title and the only way to do that is to make the NCAA tournament, then that is my #1 criteria that far and away exceeds any other data point in retrospect or present terms. Watering seasons down like you did here - I don't agree.

Yes, we had some solid/good seasons, with some enjoyable games. But how many of those years did we have our names in the bubble list either in or near the cut line? Once, in the COVID / no NCAA season. Include that one, sure, I would too, as a successful season, essentially a parallel NCAA. Unfortunately it is the only one where had there been a selection show, we would have tuned in to see what happened.

The others fall into the culture of comfort category - nice season, some enjoyable games, what's for dinner, forgotten 10 minutes later. Extension bc why not?

The teams we want to emulate - St. Mary's, SDSU, Dayton, VCU, etc. - do not sit back and say that a NET of 80-100 all year is a good season. They want to be in the mix all the time.

This is what I want too. Every game should matter, hugely, to the point losing at home to URI is not easily forgotten and is a big deal. To the point that getting dominated by vcu is a big deal and cause for bright red flashing alarms after 2-3 games, not 37.

 

[SensibleSpider]

came in, bricked a 20 foot jumper off the backboard, gave up an and-1 foul in the post where he got worked for position and that was that.

Not sure this is a fair description. He came in for 1 single defensive possession in the first half, he defended a driver the the hoop and forced a miss, then Djokovic got an offensive rebound, he forced him to also miss the putback and then VCU got another offensive rebound where AA committed a foul for an And 1. He immediately got yanked along with AA but not really sure why. Johnston was switched onto Djokovic and gave up the O rebound and then AP slid over to help defend the putback because Johnston got bullied under the basket. I just watched the whole sequence over again, painful.

His bricked 20 foot jumper was out of necessity with 3 seconds on the shot clock because Daughtry had air balled a layup and there was a scramble. Not trying to defend him but it's not like it was within the rhythm of the offense and he just decided to jack one up.

Agree his positioning on the and 1 was bad

 

[SensibleSpider]

we're not good enough. we're bottom half of the A10. the OOC doesn't hide that.

a few thoughts ...
VCU defends the perimeter. we didn't take a lot of 3's because they didn't allow them. we, on the other hand, continue to over-help and over collapse which gives up open looks from 3.

the refs didn't favor VCU. we fouled a lot. we even got away with a bunch that weren't called. and a lot of the reason we don't get fouled as much is the shots we take.

those midrange leaners and fadeaways sure look pretty when they go in. Walz looked like freaking Tim Duncan with that kiss off the glass and with his other turn around jumpers. and yet despite the success there, I still want to stop those. Tanner fades away too often in the lane too. it's pretty, but it's passive. you're going the wrong way. be aggressive.

Jaylen on the other hand seems to be watching Daughtry. loved the inside work. despite the fouls, Robinson was impactful in his short stints. Walz played very well on both ends. gritty on a bum ankle. Lopez was very good again. Daughtry was good. I didn't see the awful defense some of you point to. VCU only made 14 two pointers all game. we gave up a few too many threes and we fouled too much, but our interior defense was solid.
our guards on the other hand were nowhere to be found. they got outplayed. need more from Johnston, Thomas, Argabright, Tyne and Harper to beat good A10 teams.

Agree with everything, especially how stupid the midrange jumpers are. Lopez, Tanner and Walz love some fadeaway mid range jumpers...

Only thing I was disagree with is Walz being good on both ends. He was good offensively, loved the aggression. He got worked defensively, particularly when guarding the perimeter, every time I looked it seemed like someone was making a 3 on his contest in the first half. Another reason why the switch everything defense is stupid.

 

[SensibleSpider]

Moon based his whole philosophy on the 4 and 5 year player cycle.

The brief recap:
1st cycle (Geriot years)- 2 NCAAs in 6 years.
2nd cycle (KA0/Cline years) - 0 NCAAs in 5 years.
3rd cycle (Golden years) - 1 NCAA in 6 years
4th cycle (Portal/NIL years) - 0 NCAAs in 3 years, this year (4th) TBD, but we sure ain't getting an at large.

That historic player cycle does not exist anymore for the most part.

We are flailing now.

Agree and the worst part is, he's implied in recent press conferences that he wants to revert to that cycle, instead of leaning in to the transfer portal era...

 

[SpiderPrime]

Chris “fraudman” Mooney should have to answer for his laughable record against the lambs and in general. We need to take action.

 

[sman]

Walz ... got worked defensively, particularly when guarding the perimeter, every time I looked it seemed like someone was making a 3 on his contest in the first half.

perhaps. but I don't put that on him. not a true center's job. that's asking a lot.

 

[97spiderfan]

perhaps. but I don't put that on him. not a true center's job. that's asking a lot.

And while he is out trying to guard a 3 point shooter, we have Tyne or AA trying to guard a big in the box due to our constant and easily exploitable switching on defense.

 

[ur2K]

perhaps. but I don't put that on him. not a true center's job. that's asking a lot.

And on a bum ankle. That's on the scheme, not him.

 

[SensibleSpider]

perhaps. but I don't put that on him. not a true center's job. that's asking a lot.

Totally agree there but that's Moon defense - put your players in compromising positions.

 

[Spiderguy]

Mooney and our admin fit perfectly together because they both have zero internal or external accountability and it runs from through the whole program for us all to see. From the misspelled and incorrect social media, lackluster fan engagement, heck I called last week for some tickets and I got the voicemail which informed me of their Christmas holiday operating hours and how they looked forward to being back on January 5th (it was mid January at that point) all the way up to the coaching.

Agree and the worst part is, he's implied in recent press conferences that he wants to revert to that cycle, instead of leaning in to the transfer portal era...

Exactly. Reverting to a cycle that existed in days gone by will never happen. Moon might wish & hope, but the practicality is similar to dinosaurs roaming the earth again.

 

[Spiderguy]

And while he is out trying to guard a 3 point shooter, we have Tyne or AA trying to guard a big in the box due to our constant and easily exploitable switching on defense.

But that's the secret sauce of our defense.

 

[sman]

Agree and the worst part is, he's implied in recent press conferences that he wants to revert to that cycle, instead of leaning in to the transfer portal era...

who knows? maybe he's right. get good HS kids that other schools aren't targeting now with the portal. maybe we have them in our last 2 classes. AA looks really good. maybe Harper and JRob. who knows about McG. the incoming class looks impressive. by the time they're good enough to move up, maybe they love Richmond like we did. maybe we can keep them. maybe ...

going the free agent route for short term fixes is expensive and clearly hasn't been working since Jordan King.

 

[Spider17]

who knows? maybe he's right. get good HS kids that other schools aren't targeting now with the portal. maybe we have them in our last 2 classes. AA looks really good. maybe Harper and JRob. who knows about McG. the incoming class looks impressive. by the time they're good enough to move up, maybe they love Richmond like we did. maybe we can keep them. maybe ...

going the free agent route for short term fixes is expensive and clearly hasn't been working since Jordan King.

The key word here is good high school recruits. We have not done a good job there over the past several years overall. Going for the under recruited player is okay but should not make up the majority of our recruiting classes. We should be targeting kids who have offers comparable to A10 level of above. We can’t be bringing in too many guys whose other best offer is Stonehill university and then scratch our heads why he is redshirting/not developing the way we want.

Argabright is our highest ranked high school recruit ever according to 247 and we can see his skill set accurately reflects that. Of course not all high level recruits will pan out. Like GW3 was ESPN top 100 and didn’t work out and of course there are plenty of under target players who become stars like Jordan King. I’m just saying that our focus should be on targeting sought after players rather than diamond in the rough as those are more likely to be successful than the latter.

 

[sman]

I also want the best HS kids we can land. just saying the transfer thing isn't working great.

 

[Spider17]

Some of that depends on definition. If I define worthwhile season as 21 wins (ok 20.65) before A10 Tournament, how many does each cycle have?

I consider A10 Tournament and beyond a separate group and not sure how to define “worthwhile”.

Correct, the definition of “worthwhile season” is subjective. That’s what I’m trying to say and I think our administration has a much more liberal definition of that than many of us here.

 

[Spider17]

I also want the best HS kids we can land. just saying the transfer thing isn't working great.

You’re right, but the problem is Mooney is saying one thing and doing another. He can’t be saying that he wants to build the program with high school recruits and then go out and bring high school players who clearly aren’t or won’t become A10 level players. As seen by all the players that have transferred to lower level programs over the years. Here are the current players on our roster recruited from high school.

Freshmen:
Richardson - redshirt
Homenick - redshirt
Harper - minimal playing time but getting more. Averaging 3.7 ppg on 35% FG
Argabright - excellent player. Likely A10 ROY.

Redshirt freshmen:
Robinson - 3 ppg
McGlothin - doesn’t play

Junior:
Tyne - lost starting position as PG. had several games with 0 points. 5.4 ppg and 1.8 assists per game.
Tanner - lost starting position. 5.7 ppg

Senior:
Walz - 7.6 ppg has not really developed or improved to the expectations we have of our starting center.

Also other than Argabright no one listed above is a strong defender either. So out of these 9 guys, there’s only 1 player I can confidently say is an A10 starter caliber player. This doesn’t cut it if we want to be competitive in the A10 again.

 

[Spiders4ever]

who knows? maybe he's right. get good HS kids that other schools aren't targeting now with the portal. maybe we have them in our last 2 classes. AA looks really good. maybe Harper and JRob. who knows about McG. the incoming class looks impressive. by the time they're good enough to move up, maybe they love Richmond like we did. maybe we can keep them. maybe ...

going the free agent route for short term fixes is expensive and clearly hasn't been working since Jordan King.

Works for Tampa in baseball. Minor league system vs high priced free agents.

 

[Spiderp31]

We kept it close and competed we achieved the goal. Winning and trying to win titles wasn’t the plan. Just make the margin within 10 the last few mins.

 

[Spider17]

Spider17, if you recall, you got some SpiderWill heat on here for many of these types of takes. It's not that you cannot enjoy a season as it happens, but if the goal of playing is to win a title and the only way to do that is to make the NCAA tournament, then that is my #1 criteria that far and away exceeds any other data point in retrospect or present terms. Watering seasons down like you did here - I don't agree.

Yes, we had some solid/good seasons, with some enjoyable games. But how many of those years did we have our names in the bubble list either in or near the cut line? Once, in the COVID / no NCAA season. Include that one, sure, I would too, as a successful season, essentially a parallel NCAA. Unfortunately it is the only one where had there been a selection show, we would have tuned in to see what happened.

The others fall into the culture of comfort category - nice season, some enjoyable games, what's for dinner, forgotten 10 minutes later. Extension bc why not?

The teams we want to emulate - St. Mary's, SDSU, Dayton, VCU, etc. - do not sit back and say that a NET of 80-100 all year is a good season. They want to be in the mix all the time.

This is what I want too. Every game should matter, hugely, to the point losing at home to URI is not easily forgotten and is a big deal. To the point that getting dominated by vcu is a big deal and cause for bright red flashing alarms after 2-3 games, not 37.

I’m not disagreeing with a lot of what you’re saying. What I mentioned like I did above is that the administration likely has a more liberal definition of a successful season that is beyond making the NCAA tournament or not. I actually agree with that and while the most important metric, don’t think failing to make the NCAAs does not mean the season was inherently unsuccessful. Like 2023-2024 was definitely a successful season. 2019-2020 was a successful season in my eyes.

Still, college basketball is a “what have you done for me lately” mentality, as it should be, and we should not be resting on our laurels of the past. I use the word “trajectory” a lot because to me it can help justify those seasons we don’t make NCAA/aren’t successful as a way to determine whether the next season or two will be successful. 2018-2019 is a perfect example. We stunk that year and the year before. However, you could tell that Gilly/Golden/Cayo were going to be special. Of course there were circumstances with COVID but at the end of the day, 2019-2020 and 2021-2022 were successful seasons that panned out due to that upward trajectory.

We do not have that right now. Our trajectory is looking very bleak. We don’t have any solid foundation of players to build upon and we don’t do a good job of bringing in 1-2 year transfers who will gel and will play well in our system. We have terrible schedules and next year isn’t looking any better, and attendance has decreased for the 4th year in a row. Nothing about the direction our program is heading in right now says we can right the ship next year. Hence my wish for some change. If it’s not getting a different head coach, then it needs to be new assistant staff or a complete change in offensive/defensive philosophy. Something. Our beloved program has become stale.

 

[Spiderguy]

Correct, the definition of “worthwhile season” is subjective. That’s what I’m trying to say and I think our administration has a much more liberal definition of that than many of us here.

Our administration -

10-3 OOC goes a long way towards a worthwhile season. A few losses to good teams in conference won’t diminish the success we had OOC.